Rodgers Traded

[Yoop]

So it sounds like the consensus from group A is that Murphy made the mistake for not including Aaron in the interviewing and hiring committee.

I wasn’t saying what should have happened, just saying I can see why rodgers wasn’t satisfied by a 9 man pow wow when he desired to be more involved.

What's the right amount of involvement and power you think AR deserved and should have had?

100% ?

75% ?

50% ?

25% ?

10 % ?

5 % ?

0 ?

Indulge me:

Paint me a verbal picture of how a "good and respectful" consultation with AR woulda gone.

obviously 100% involved, but I'am asking you, why would you add POWER into this equation, no one including me has ever mentioned that Rodgers should have final say

Rodgers in 2018 was a very involved player, he had just went through a meltdown with McCarthy and lost the only GM he ever had and highly respected, naturally he had some questions he deserved to voice and get answers to concerning the direction of the team, instead he got a pep talk from Murphy, more cash, and a coaching preference seminar/consultation, in his shoes I would have been upset too.

[Acrobat]

So it sounds like the consensus from group A is that Murphy made the mistake for not including Aaron in the interviewing and hiring committee.

I wasn’t saying what should have happened, just saying I can see why rodgers wasn’t satisfied by a 9 man pow wow when he desired to be more involved.

What's the right amount of involvement and power you think AR deserved and should have had?

100% ?

75% ?

50% ?

25% ?

10 % ?

5 % ?

0 ?

Indulge me:

Paint me a verbal picture of how a "good and respectful" consultation with AR woulda gone.

No more than 20%. I'm fine with a "hey we're leaning towards this guy. Thoughts?" And make it clear that his answer does not have any bearing on the decision.

[Drj820]

I wasn’t saying what should have happened, just saying I can see why rodgers wasn’t satisfied by a 9 man pow wow when he desired to be more involved.

What's the right amount of involvement and power you think AR deserved and should have had?

100% ?

75% ?

50% ?

25% ?

10 % ?

5 % ?

0 ?

Indulge me:

Paint me a verbal picture of how a "good and respectful" consultation with AR woulda gone.

No more than 20%. I'm fine with a "hey we're leaning towards this guy. Thoughts?" And make it clear that his answer does not have any bearing on the decision.

A lot is this is just managing relationships. We know 12 has an ego. We know he can be needy. He def shouldn’t be the decision maker. But why not keep him personally updated along the way? Placate the little fella. It’s a harmless thing to do and easy enough and goes along way toward making 12 feel good and included

[go pak go]

What's the right amount of involvement and power you think AR deserved and should have had?

100% ?

75% ?

50% ?

25% ?

10 % ?

5 % ?

0 ?

Indulge me:

Paint me a verbal picture of how a "good and respectful" consultation with AR woulda gone.

No more than 20%. I'm fine with a "hey we're leaning towards this guy. Thoughts?" And make it clear that his answer does not have any bearing on the decision.

A lot is this is just managing relationships. We know 12 has an ego. We know he can be needy. He def shouldn’t be the decision maker. But why not keep him personally updated along the way? Placate the little fella. It’s a harmless thing to do and easy enough and goes along way toward making 12 feel good and included

Gute admitted as much and noted that he changed his communication with 12 in 2021 and 2022 as a result. And Rodgers during 2021 and 2022 also stated the communication was significantly better between the two.

And then his story changed in the offseason of 2023.

[Drj820]

No more than 20%. I'm fine with a "hey we're leaning towards this guy. Thoughts?" And make it clear that his answer does not have any bearing on the decision.

A lot is this is just managing relationships. We know 12 has an ego. We know he can be needy. He def shouldn’t be the decision maker. But why not keep him personally updated along the way? Placate the little fella. It’s a harmless thing to do and easy enough and goes along way toward making 12 feel good and included

Gute admitted as much and noted that he changed his communication with 12 in 2021 and 2022 as a result. And Rodgers during 2021 and 2022 also stated the communication was significantly better between the two.

And then his story changed in the offseason of 2023.

So even Gute admits he could have placated rodgers better through fake consultation to help save the relationship, and the amount of consultation he gave to rodgers was not adequate??

Looks like Yoop wins!! [mention]Yoop[/mention] was right!!

[RingoCStarrQB]

I do think Lafleur turned out to be a good hire. So everyone involved should be pretty happy. But yes, what you are suggesting would be pretty normal for when an org is making a coaching change while having a HOF Qb I would guess.

In addition, it is probably what Rodgers desired and would he had in mind when he talked about being consulted.

I def think the 9 man pow wow was just a courtesy to those guys and didn’t have much impact. They could have all said 9 different things.

LaCoach turned out to be a good hire?! What accomplishments exist that prove that LaCoach was a good hire. All I've seen so far is a YES man who very professionally and eloquently spews the obvious. His coaching and play calling has been average.

come on Ringo, your not even being close to fair with Lafleur, yes he had a very good QB, yes he had a very good WR and RB, he's dealt with a lot of injury's, specially OL and on defense, he's had 4 season of befuddlement on defense actually, and 3 seasons of some of the worst ST's in the league, and has become the 5th winningest coach in franchise history, would you rather go back to the Mike Sherman product? or how about the fan fav Dandy Devine?

Let's get at least 11 regular season wins in 2023 without #12 and then re-evaluate.

[go pak go]

A lot is this is just managing relationships. We know 12 has an ego. We know he can be needy. He def shouldn’t be the decision maker. But why not keep him personally updated along the way? Placate the little fella. It’s a harmless thing to do and easy enough and goes along way toward making 12 feel good and included

Gute admitted as much and noted that he changed his communication with 12 in 2021 and 2022 as a result. And Rodgers during 2021 and 2022 also stated the communication was significantly better between the two.

And then his story changed in the offseason of 2023.

So even Gute admits he could have placated rodgers better through fake consultation to help save the relationship, and the amount of consultation he gave to rodgers was not adequate??

Looks like Yoop wins!! @Yoop was right!!

We already established that "fake consultation" occurred, but if you're going to be a turd about this and make it a weird competition:

This whole thing started with yoop saying two things:

1) Gute hired LeFluer because Gute is the boss and flexed his bossy muscles. - this was wrong. A committee of Gute, Murphy and to a lesser extent Ball hired LeFluer.

2) yoop said Gute never consulted Aaron Rodgers. - this was wrong. Gute and Murphy did consult but then 4 pages of arguing to the degree of consultation that was necessary to be considered actual consultation occurred.

Just a strange few pages of posts from stating the obvious (you saying Rodgers felt he wasn't consulted with enough), harsh attacks, to superficial gloating.

[go pak go]

LaCoach turned out to be a good hire?! What accomplishments exist that prove that LaCoach was a good hire. All I've seen so far is a YES man who very professionally and eloquently spews the obvious. His coaching and play calling has been average.

come on Ringo, your not even being close to fair with Lafleur, yes he had a very good QB, yes he had a very good WR and RB, he's dealt with a lot of injury's, specially OL and on defense, he's had 4 season of befuddlement on defense actually, and 3 seasons of some of the worst ST's in the league, and has become the 5th winningest coach in franchise history, would you rather go back to the Mike Sherman product? or how about the fan fav Dandy Devine?

Let's get at least 11 regular season wins in 2023 without #12 and then re-evaluate.

MLF turned Rodgers career around. Rodgers was on a downward spiral with really only a stretch of 8 elite games between 2015 - 2018. Otherwise everything else was pretty pedestrian for a Rodgers expectation. MLF then came in and created a 13-3 team and then turned Rodgers around to back to back MVPs. I would say that is a tremendous success. He helped turn Aaron Rodgers's career around.

[Drj820]

Gute admitted as much and noted that he changed his communication with 12 in 2021 and 2022 as a result. And Rodgers during 2021 and 2022 also stated the communication was significantly better between the two.

And then his story changed in the offseason of 2023.

So even Gute admits he could have placated rodgers better through fake consultation to help save the relationship, and the amount of consultation he gave to rodgers was not adequate??

Looks like Yoop wins!! @Yoop was right!!

We already established that "fake consultation" occurred, but if you're going to be a turd about this and make it a weird competition:

This whole thing started with yoop saying two things:

1) Gute hired LeFluer because Gute is the boss and flexed his bossy muscles. - this was wrong. A committee of Gute, Murphy and to a lesser extent Ball hired LeFluer.

2) yoop said Gute never consulted Aaron Rodgers. - this was wrong. Gute and Murphy did consult but then 4 pages of arguing to the degree of consultation that was necessary to be considered actual consultation occurred.

Just a strange few pages of posts from stating the obvious (you saying Rodgers felt he wasn't consulted with enough), harsh attacks, to superficial gloating.

I declare Yoop the winner. Won’t be apologizing for this either. No intend to offend.

[YoHoChecko]

The MLF hire genuinely saved/revived Rodgers' career and I don't know how anyone can read the evidence any other way.

Speaking of evidence, we have 4 years of Rodgers and MLF together. Let's do some comparisons.

First, we can look at the best statistical run of Rodgers' career, 2011-2014, when he won 2 MVP awards.
Then, we can look at the 4 years preceding MLF's hire to see how Rodgers was playing (and the team was winning).
Finally, we'll look at Rodgers' 4 years with MLF

image.png (12.17 KiB) Viewed 397 times

Rodgers under MLF started more games, threw for more yards, won more games, took fewer sacks...

His numbers under MLF compare very nicely to his 2011-2014 stretch. But the MLF numbers BLOW AWAY the four years in between, when Rodgers had been gradually declining or stagnating.


Any argument that says "MLF's success is qualified by the fact that he had Aaron Rodgers" has to compare the MLF years to other years in Rodgers' career. The Packers had more wins in these 4 years than the other stretches, even with the losing season in 2022. Rodgers won 2 MVPs in this 4-year stretch just like he did from 2011 to 2014. And none in between.

Sure, we're all curious if he can win without Rodgers. And that will and should be taken into consideration. But it's important to note that he also won MORE with Rodgers than Rodgers was winning without him.

Again, obviously, the Super Bowl in 2010 was the topper, but unless we're arguing that McCarthy is simply a better coach than MLF because he won that Super Bowl, then it's not a trump card. Aaron Rodgers was better with MLF than he was in the years just before MLF came along, and MLF deserves that credit and respect even if he struggles without Rodgers in the coming years. The fact that his track record is littered with QBs performing at or near their best under his coaching also points to the fact that this is not a fluke of timing, but a MLF effect. Rodgers owes that latest contract he signed to MLF because without that hire, Rodgers would have been retired by now.

[Drj820]

Gute saved Rodgers career when he drafted Love

[TheSkeptic]

Gute saved Rodgers career when he drafted Love

Very possible. It put the chip back on Rodgers' shoulder. It is very possible that this rather than the head coach change is what made the last 2 MVP's possible. Unfortunately it also led to an unaffordable salary cap and Father Time has not been waiting patiently since the beginning of that last playoff game.

Thank God it is over, except of course on this forum.

[Acrobat]

What's the right amount of involvement and power you think AR deserved and should have had?

100% ?

75% ?

50% ?

25% ?

10 % ?

5 % ?

0 ?

Indulge me:

Paint me a verbal picture of how a "good and respectful" consultation with AR woulda gone.

No more than 20%. I'm fine with a "hey we're leaning towards this guy. Thoughts?" And make it clear that his answer does not have any bearing on the decision.

A lot is this is just managing relationships. We know 12 has an ego. We know he can be needy. He def shouldn’t be the decision maker. But why not keep him personally updated along the way? Placate the little fella. It’s a harmless thing to do and easy enough and goes along way toward making 12 feel good and included

In all fairness, how can you keep him updated if he doesn't have cell service?

[Yoop]

The MLF hire genuinely saved/revived Rodgers' career and I don't know how anyone can read the evidence any other way.

Speaking of evidence, we have 4 years of Rodgers and MLF together. Let's do some comparisons.

First, we can look at the best statistical run of Rodgers' career, 2011-2014, when he won 2 MVP awards.
Then, we can look at the 4 years preceding MLF's hire to see how Rodgers was playing (and the team was winning).
Finally, we'll look at Rodgers' 4 years with MLF

image.png

Rodgers under MLF started more games, threw for more yards, won more games, took fewer sacks...

His numbers under MLF compare very nicely to his 2011-2014 stretch. But the MLF numbers BLOW AWAY the four years in between, when Rodgers had been gradually declining or stagnating.


Any argument that says "MLF's success is qualified by the fact that he had Aaron Rodgers" has to compare the MLF years to other years in Rodgers' career. The Packers had more wins in these 4 years than the other stretches, even with the losing season in 2022. Rodgers won 2 MVPs in this 4-year stretch just like he did from 2011 to 2014. And none in between.

Sure, we're all curious if he can win without Rodgers. And that will and should be taken into consideration. But it's important to note that he also won MORE with Rodgers than Rodgers was winning without him.

Again, obviously, the Super Bowl in 2010 was the topper, but unless we're arguing that McCarthy is simply a better coach than MLF because he won that Super Bowl, then it's not a trump card. Aaron Rodgers was better with MLF than he was in the years just before MLF came along, and MLF deserves that credit and respect even if he struggles without Rodgers in the coming years. The fact that his track record is littered with QBs performing at or near their best under his coaching also points to the fact that this is not a fluke of timing, but a MLF effect. Rodgers owes that latest contract he signed to MLF because without that hire, Rodgers would have been retired by now.

MLF brought balance, and a up tempo passing approach, which helped Rodgers get rid of the ball quicker, more motion and deception, once Rodgers fully bought in he was right back to MVP form.

I see no reason for any of that to change with Love.


His numbers under MLF compare very nicely to his 2011-2014 stretch. But the MLF numbers BLOW AWAY the four years in between, when Rodgers had been gradually declining or stagnating.

I've stated what I think are the biggest reason for the decline of Rodgers and McCarthys offense many times, so I wont regurgitate them again, but from 2011 to 2014-15 he had very good receiver group, McCarthy needed to make more drastic scheme adjustments once that changed.

[RingoCStarrQB]

come on Ringo, your not even being close to fair with Lafleur, yes he had a very good QB, yes he had a very good WR and RB, he's dealt with a lot of injury's, specially OL and on defense, he's had 4 season of befuddlement on defense actually, and 3 seasons of some of the worst ST's in the league, and has become the 5th winningest coach in franchise history, would you rather go back to the Mike Sherman product? or how about the fan fav Dandy Devine?

Let's get at least 11 regular season wins in 2023 without #12 and then re-evaluate.

MLF turned Rodgers career around. Rodgers was on a downward spiral with really only a stretch of 8 elite games between 2015 - 2018. Otherwise everything else was pretty pedestrian for a Rodgers expectation. MLF then came in and created a 13-3 team and then turned Rodgers around to back to back MVPs. I would say that is a tremendous success. He helped turn Aaron Rodgers's career around.

Wait Wait Wait. What does Rodgers' career getting turned around with have to do with LaCoach being viewed as a success so far? It's a team game driven toward bringing the title back to Titletown.....not individual accolades. How hard is this to comprehend across this board?

[RingoCStarrQB]

Gute saved Rodgers career when he drafted Love

[go pak go]

Let's get at least 11 regular season wins in 2023 without #12 and then re-evaluate.

MLF turned Rodgers career around. Rodgers was on a downward spiral with really only a stretch of 8 elite games between 2015 - 2018. Otherwise everything else was pretty pedestrian for a Rodgers expectation. MLF then came in and created a 13-3 team and then turned Rodgers around to back to back MVPs. I would say that is a tremendous success. He helped turn Aaron Rodgers's career around.

Wait Wait Wait. What does Rodgers' career getting turned around with have to do with LaCoach being viewed as a success so far? It's a team game driven toward bringing the title back to Titletown.....not individual accolades. How hard is this to comprehend across this board?

So only 35 head coaches since the 1966 season have been a success. Good to know.

[go pak go]

Gute saved Rodgers career when he drafted Love

But he didn't. Rodgers didn't win a Super Bowl.

[Labrev]

Gute saved Rodgers career when he drafted Love

But he didn't. Rodgers didn't win a Super Bowl.

It saved Rodgers's tenure in Green Bay.

[Drj820]

MLF turned Rodgers career around. Rodgers was on a downward spiral with really only a stretch of 8 elite games between 2015 - 2018. Otherwise everything else was pretty pedestrian for a Rodgers expectation. MLF then came in and created a 13-3 team and then turned Rodgers around to back to back MVPs. I would say that is a tremendous success. He helped turn Aaron Rodgers's career around.

Wait Wait Wait. What does Rodgers' career getting turned around with have to do with LaCoach being viewed as a success so far? It's a team game driven toward bringing the title back to Titletown.....not individual accolades. How hard is this to comprehend across this board?

So only 35 head coaches since the 1966 season have been a success. Good to know.

Only coaches who coach in towns called “title town” are judged by this standard. The NFL cities who are called this according to Wikipedia are Boston and Green Bay.

So yes, in Boston and Green Bay the proper measure of success is super bowls. The fact that fans don’t hold the org to this standard is why we haven’t won in over a decade.