Packers Huddle

Scott4Pack wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 10:21

The words that Aaron Rodgers has spoken thus far (since end of the last game against Lions) that I keep as must important, are “generational wealth.” Rodgers knows that he has been gifted an awful lot. He is therefore in position to only act in ways that benefit the team that has given him that generational wealth.

Whatever happens, he will give a discount of some kind to the Packers as they rework his deal and/or trade him. They scratched his back in a big way and he will reciprocate by scratching theirs in some way.

Scott4Pack wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 10:21

Whatever happens, he will give a discount of some kind to the Packers as they rework his deal and/or trade him. They scratched his back in a big way and he will reciprocate by scratching theirs in some way.

I know you said something about generational wealth, but what evidence is there that this would happen? I can't say anything about Aaron Rodgers or how things have gone in the past would lead me to believe a discount would be given. That rarely happens in the NFL anyway.

NCF wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 10:14

Drj820 wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 09:56

Yoop wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 09:35

short of improving the WR position the FO did what it could to compete for the SB the last 3 years, most teams that go all in buying a bunch of UFA don't win a SB, some don't even make the PO's, we see one team do it and people act as though thats the winning formula.

same with tanking, and rebuilding, Cinci had to pick top 5 or 10 for 5 straight years to build the team they have now, We'd fire Gutekunst long before he'd be allowed to do that, and Cinci didn't purposely be the worst team in the league to pull that off, they simply sucked

Improving wr position is pretty important in todays NFL.

The four teams left have:
Chiefs-Juju and Kelce
Bengals-Jamar chase, tee Higgins
Eagles: Davanta smith, AJ Brown
Niners: Deebo Samuel, Brandon Aiyuk.

As you can see, makes sense we didn’t make much noise when you compare our group to the groups on the final 4.

Important distinction, Kelce plays TE. In that case, Lazard, Watson, and Doubs are pretty much the equivalent of what JuJu was for KC. The bigger issue is we don't yet have that #1 guy. It's probably Watson as we go forward, but in terms of 2022, we didn't have it.

It’s not that important of a distinction when we don’t have a playmaking TE either. You could just as easily say “pass catchers” and my point would be the same.

We went into the year with Lazard, Cobb, Sammy Watkins and three rookies…the final four teams had the elite firepower I highlighted above.

I agree KC probably has the weakest duo out of the four I listed, but they make up for it with MVP caliber qb play.

My point was this: when you look at the duo of pass catchers the final four teams have, and then you look at ours..it’s no surprise we aren’t in the final four.

Also, we could have had Deebo, aiyuk, tee, juju, AJ brown if we had valued the position.

Scott4Pack wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 10:11

That rumor (yes, only a RUMOR) per Schefter was completely and entirely not substantiated. When Schefter and others say things like “this could happen” or “this is a possibility” or “this is an intriguing option” they are NOT telling us what might happen or what is known to happen. From so-called “reporters” this is nothing but filler and probably 100% untrue. Some of those guys put stuff out there hoping it’ll actually happen so that they can look like they have special insight. But it’s only filler.

I realize that, this could end with all the rumors turning out to be a load of bunk. And generally the moves that Green Bay actually does make are ones that people don't see coming. FA signings, draft picks, generally all moves they make feel totally out-of-the-blue. So I can totally see this ending with Rodgers being back and the FO never really entertaining offers for him.

But any team with an older QB1 has to seriously consider these options, and there motivating factors for dealing him do exist (whether they end up being decisive or not), so the rumors while unsubstantiated are nonetheless still imitating plausible outcomes.

Also, for all the flak that Schefter got from Packers fans for his Rodgers reports in 2020, they turned out be mostly correct in the end, even the seemingly outlandish stuff like Rodgers being mad that we cut Jake Kumerow (lol).

I interpret Rodgers's "generational wealth" statements to be an acknowledgement of why he appreciates this team and thus will cooperate with them on our next move; I doubt it means any (significant) concessions from his camp are forthcoming.

I don't think Rodgers will try to *squeeze* the org, but neither do I think he is going to give up to us as charity much of what he's owed from us. And even as a proud Rodgerz Haterz I frankly don't begrudge him for that (I just think he and his fanboys don't get to complain about his cast if he does that, though).

For the most part I think he just wants to handle this with more class than Favre did, knowing that some fans lost respect for Favre with the way he exited. Rodgers likely does not want to tarnish his legacy with such a thing.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 10:47

NCF wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 10:14

Drj820 wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 09:56

Improving wr position is pretty important in todays NFL.

The four teams left have:
Chiefs-Juju and Kelce
Bengals-Jamar chase, tee Higgins
Eagles: Davanta smith, AJ Brown
Niners: Deebo Samuel, Brandon Aiyuk.

As you can see, makes sense we didn’t make much noise when you compare our group to the groups on the final 4.

Important distinction, Kelce plays TE. In that case, Lazard, Watson, and Doubs are pretty much the equivalent of what JuJu was for KC. The bigger issue is we don't yet have that #1 guy. It's probably Watson as we go forward, but in terms of 2022, we didn't have it.

It’s not that important of a distinction when we don’t have a playmaking TE either. You could just as easily say “pass catchers” and my point would be the same.

We went into the year with Lazard, Cobb, Sammy Watkins and three rookies…the final four teams had the elite firepower I highlighted above.

I agree KC probably has the weakest duo out of the four I listed, but they make up for it with MVP caliber qb play.

My point was this: when you look at the duo of pass catchers the final four teams have, and then you look at ours..it’s no surprise we aren’t in the final four.

Also, we could have had Deebo, aiyuk, tee, juju, AJ brown if we had valued the position.

no, no, defense wins championships

you can't design plays for talent you don't have

seriously, I thought everyone new that OC design run schemes, pass plays around RB's and receivers, and that the QB is but a delivery person, sure the better the QB is, translate to better delivery, but the more limited the WR, the harder the delivery.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 10:47

It’s not that important of a distinction when we don’t have a playmaking TE either. You could just as easily say “pass catchers” and my point would be the same.

It is an important distinction. We can include Aaron Jones and Robert Tonyan in this group as investments in our pass catchers group. It didn't all work out, but it's not from a lack of trying.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 10:47

We went into the year with Lazard, Cobb, Sammy Watkins and three rookies…the final four teams had the elite firepower I highlighted above.

We knew there would be some growing pains when we traded Adams. We definitely didn't get enough out of the collective in 2022, but I am not entirely convinced the cupboard is still bare.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 10:47

I agree KC probably has the weakest duo out of the four I listed, but they make up for it with MVP caliber qb play.

I was told this is not possible without weaponz.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 10:47

My point was this: when you look at the duo of pass catchers the final four teams have, and then you look at ours..it’s no surprise we aren’t in the final four.

No disagreement there. 2022 proved we had a largely inferior group compared to other units.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 10:47

Also, we could have had Deebo, aiyuk, tee, juju, AJ brown if we had valued the position.

I don't really care about this. Each scenario is a different decision point that changes everything about our roster. Collectively, it says something about how we value these guys and value the guys we drafted instead, but I don't think individually there is a single example that points to us not caring about who is catching passes on this team. There was no true desperation until last season and other than AJ Brown who would have cost us a lot, every example you list was from offseasons past.

NCF wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 11:09

Drj820 wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 10:47

It’s not that important of a distinction when we don’t have a playmaking TE either. You could just as easily say “pass catchers” and my point would be the same.

It is an important distinction. We can include Aaron Jones and Robert Tonyan in this group as investments in our pass catchers group. It didn't all work out, but it's not from a lack of trying.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 10:47

We went into the year with Lazard, Cobb, Sammy Watkins and three rookies…the final four teams had the elite firepower I highlighted above.

We knew there would be some growing pains when we traded Adams. We definitely didn't get enough out of the collective in 2022, but I am not entirely convinced the cupboard is still bare.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 10:47

I agree KC probably has the weakest duo out of the four I listed, but they make up for it with MVP caliber qb play.

I was told this is not possible without weaponz.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 10:47

My point was this: when you look at the duo of pass catchers the final four teams have, and then you look at ours..it’s no surprise we aren’t in the final four.

No disagreement there. 2022 proved we had a largely inferior group compared to other units.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 10:47

Also, we could have had Deebo, aiyuk, tee, juju, AJ brown if we had valued the position.

I don't really care about this. Each scenario is a different decision point that changes everything about our roster. Collectively, it says something about how we value these guys and value the guys we drafted instead, but I don't think individually there is a single example that points to us not caring about who is catching passes on this team. There was no true desperation until last season and other than AJ Brown who would have cost us a lot, every example you list was from offseasons past.

No no…I will not compare Tonyan to Kelce. When I’m
Listing playmaking pass catchers, whether my criteria is WR or WR and TE, I’m still not putting Tonyan in the convo when I’m talking about elite dangerous playmakers who are in the conference championship.

Next, you say you “knew there would be growing pains”, did you expect those growing pains to cost us the playoffs? Because if we brought Rodgers back just to think of how good we could be in two to three years..that’s malpractice. What we did was pretend we didn’t need good receivers because we brought everybody back on defense. We still don’t have a receiver Corp than is anywhere close to the duos I listed that are in the championship game.

“I was told this isn’t possible without weaponz”- trust me, Kelce, juju, hardeman, and even mvs plus the designs of Andy Reid and the running back duo of the rookie and McKinnon is plenty to move the ball. Yet, even with better coaching than the packers…if you were to take away kelce (like we took away adams and didn’t replace), that offense would take a big step back too.

“ No disagreement there. 2022 proved we had a largely inferior group compared to other units.”

Sounds like you literally agree with my entire point anyways then and just wanted to pick my comment apart for fun??

I mean ya my point was when you compare the duos in the championship games with ours…it makes sense we aren’t in the championship round.

Glad we on same page

Drj820 wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 11:31

Sounds like you literally agree with my entire point anyways then and just wanted to pick my comment apart for fun??

I don't agree with your entire point. Unless your words mean something different than their literal interpretation a big part of your point is the Packers don't care and didn't try to put together a competent group (and yes, when you get to talk about JuJu, I can talk about Tonyan).

Drj820 wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 11:31

I mean ya my point was when you compare the duos in the championship games with ours…it makes sense we aren’t in the championship round.

Glad we on same page

Again, I agree here. How we got there and where we go from here I think is a different story.

The four starting TEs in the championship round will be Dallas Goeddert, George Kittle, Hayden hurst, and Travis Kelce.

Miles ahead of the little project the packers have spent years on.

NCF wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 11:38

Drj820 wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 11:31

Sounds like you literally agree with my entire point anyways then and just wanted to pick my comment apart for fun??

I don't agree with your entire point. Unless your words mean something different than their literal interpretation a big part of your point is the Packers don't care and didn't try to put together a competent group (and yes, when you get to talk about JuJu, I can talk about Tonyan).

Drj820 wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 11:31

I mean ya my point was when you compare the duos in the championship games with ours…it makes sense we aren’t in the championship round.

Glad we on same page

Again, I agree here. How we got there and where we go from here I think is a different story.

Juju, Toney, and MVS were the chiefs effort to replace tyreke hill.

Our effort was Sammy Watkins

Juju had 933 yards in the regular season. 3 tds
Tonyan had less than 500 yards and 2 tds.

Tonyan isn’t even in the conversation.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 10:31

Scott4Pack wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 10:21

Whatever happens, he will give a discount of some kind to the Packers as they rework his deal and/or trade him. They scratched his back in a big way and he will reciprocate by scratching theirs in some way.

I know you said something about generational wealth, but what evidence is there that this would happen? I can't say anything about Aaron Rodgers or how things have gone in the past would lead me to believe a discount would be given. That rarely happens in the NFL anyway.

I only watched what Aaron said when he spoke about the generational wealth (his words, not mine). While he never directly stated that he would give any kind of discount that I know of, I had the real impression that he would deal favorably with the Pack, realizing that he is a truly (financially) gifted man because of them. That’s why I mentioned the back scratching comment.

If that never happens and I’m mistaken, fine. But I got the feeling that he is poised to only offer generous goodwill to the Pack, just as they have to him. He’s grateful and I think it shows.

Labrev wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 10:56

I interpret Rodgers's "generational wealth" statements to be an acknowledgement of why he appreciates this team and thus will cooperate with them on our next move; I doubt it means any (significant) concessions from his camp are forthcoming.

I don't think Rodgers will try to *squeeze* the org, but neither do I think he is going to give up to us as charity much of what he's owed from us. And even as a proud Rodgerz Haterz I frankly don't begrudge him for that (I just think he and his fanboys don't get to complain about his cast if he does that, though).

For the most part I think he just wants to handle this with more class than Favre did, knowing that some fans lost respect for Favre with the way he exited. Rodgers likely does not want to tarnish his legacy with such a thing.

What was it that Favre did that supposedly was unforgivable? I know his claims were that he simply wanted to play with his buddy, who happened to be OC with the Vikes. I know that’s is unpardonable for some Pack fans. But not for me. It’s a league and a business. People on the tail end of their careers commonly want to work with their friends.
:-)

Labrev wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 10:53

Scott4Pack wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 10:11

That rumor (yes, only a RUMOR) per Schefter was completely and entirely not substantiated. When Schefter and others say things like “this could happen” or “this is a possibility” or “this is an intriguing option” they are NOT telling us what might happen or what is known to happen. From so-called “reporters” this is nothing but filler and probably 100% untrue. Some of those guys put stuff out there hoping it’ll actually happen so that they can look like they have special insight. But it’s only filler.

I realize that, this could end with all the rumors turning out to be a load of bunk. And generally the moves that Green Bay actually does make are ones that people don't see coming. FA signings, draft picks, generally all moves they make feel totally out-of-the-blue. So I can totally see this ending with Rodgers being back and the FO never really entertaining offers for him.

But any team with an older QB1 has to seriously consider these options, and there motivating factors for dealing him do exist (whether they end up being decisive or not), so the rumors while unsubstantiated are nonetheless still imitating plausible outcomes.

Also, for all the flak that Schefter got from Packers fans for his Rodgers reports in 2020, they turned out be mostly correct in the end, even the seemingly outlandish stuff like Rodgers being mad that we cut Jake Kumerow (lol).

Sure thing. I have personally seen several accounts and reports, just since we lost to the Kitties, that say that something is a FACT in the headline, while the actual story says that this “might” happen or be an option. That is simply BAD and FALSE reporting carried out in an attempt to stir up headlines. I appreciate that the PackerNation in this forum sticks more to tried and true (factual) information instead of chasing hares.

;-)

Scott4Pack wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 11:58

I only watched what Aaron said when he spoke about the generational wealth (his words, not mine).

Was this just this past Tuesday or was it a different interview?

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 12:10

Scott4Pack wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 11:58

I only watched what Aaron said when he spoke about the generational wealth (his words, not mine).

Was this just this past Tuesday or was it a different interview?

That was from McAfee’s show LAST week, not this week.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 11:41

Juju, Toney, and MVS were the chiefs effort to replace tyreke hill.

Our effort was Sammy Watkins

*Watkins, Watson, Doubs, and Toure + faith in the development of in-house guys.

What I think is interesting here is, the argument has long been that one elite receiver -- even arguably the best in the league (Davante Adams) is not enough -- we need more than one *elite*.

KC shows otherwise. They had two guys who were star receiving options, Hill and Kelce. Now they just one elite pass-catcher (Kelce) and a handful of guys who are solid not special, yet their offense is just as productive as it was without Hill (by some metrics, it's even better) despite no star-for-star replacement. And they have matched last year's success, i.e. getting to the AFCCG.

Labrev wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 13:21

Drj820 wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 11:41

Juju, Toney, and MVS were the chiefs effort to replace tyreke hill.

Our effort was Sammy Watkins

*Watkins, Watson, Doubs, and Toure + faith in the development of in-house guys.

What I think is interesting here is, the argument has long been that one elite receiver -- even arguably the best in the league (Davante Adams) is not enough -- we need more than one *elite*.

KC shows otherwise. They had two guys who were star receiving options, Hill and Kelce. Now they just one elite pass-catcher (Kelce) and a handful of guys who are solid not special, yet their offense is just as productive as it was without Hill (by some metrics, it's even better) despite no star-for-star replacement. And they have matched last year's success, i.e. getting to the AFCCG.

ya first important thing to note is they havent won the AFCCG yet. they very well may miss Hill by the end of it.

Second point is they replaced with solid...not special. With this i agree...I would just wager that we did not replace with solid.

Third point is I was talking about established vets brought in to help the situation who should be ready to play day one...we brought in Watkins. They brought in Toney, Juju, and MVS. Thats a big difference. Thats solid.

Final point is, i didnt count the rookies because they were either mid rounder who we all knew needed more time to develop...or they were Watson who we also would need alot of time to adjust due to playing in FCS. They were brought in to improve the situation at a future point...we were going for a super bowl in the twilight of Rodgers career and we needed some reinforcements to help day one.

go pak go wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 06:44

bud fox wrote: ↑

24 Jan 2023 18:58

Rodgers cap hit for 2023 is 31.6m - that isn't even bad.

It is 10th amongst Qbs.

It shouldn't be an issue - he should just be back and playing which i expect to be the case.

We should save this chat for next year.

Do you think the Packers are or can be serious 2023 contenders?

If the answer isn't yes, then we must trade him. His $31 million hits in 2023 yes. But him playing on the Packers in 2023 also guarantees the Packers must take on an additional I believe $68 million in cap beyond 2023 for absolutely 0 service.

I don't think that's right.
His dead cap is like 24m next year. That is when it makes sense to move on.
Also he is still our best option to win.

bud fox wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 14:35

go pak go wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2023 06:44

bud fox wrote: ↑

24 Jan 2023 18:58

Rodgers cap hit for 2023 is 31.6m - that isn't even bad.

It is 10th amongst Qbs.

It shouldn't be an issue - he should just be back and playing which i expect to be the case.

We should save this chat for next year.

Do you think the Packers are or can be serious 2023 contenders?

If the answer isn't yes, then we must trade him. His $31 million hits in 2023 yes. But him playing on the Packers in 2023 also guarantees the Packers must take on an additional I believe $68 million in cap beyond 2023 for absolutely 0 service.

I don't think that's right.
His dead cap is like 24m next year. That is when it makes sense to move on.

Nope.

Spotrac's Cap Hit and Dead cap columns are wrong. The math they use doesn't work and I believe it has something to do with their assumption of the 2023 option.

The math is pretty clear. If Rodgers retires right now, we owe $40 million of dead cap from previous seasons. If we exercise the option, we pay him an additional $59 million in guaranteed money. So there is $100 million of cap funds that has to get recognized at some point if we exercise the option. And $40 million if we don't.

That is the math.