Packers Huddle

go pak go wrote: ↑

13 Feb 2021 07:03

I mean if I'm being perfectly honest, I would rather have Jason Verrett as our "splash" FA move.

I have no idea what he will command though either.

A lot. I wouldn't pay it with his injury history, either. As gross as it is, I would rather have Richard Sherman.

NCF wrote: ↑

13 Feb 2021 07:06

go pak go wrote: ↑

12 Feb 2021 12:29

NCF wrote: ↑

12 Feb 2021 09:13

I will say, Z is a very talented football player... as was Clay Matthews, but they are not "that guy". Favre had Reggie and we won a Super Bowl. Rodgers had Woodson and we won a Super Bowl. Getting Watt would be that guy, that face of the defense that could get us back again. Also one of those guys that then makes Z and everyone else on defense that much better around him.

So are we just leaving out Julius Peppers and Mercedes Lewis etc. because they weren't on the roster when the team won it?

I mean if we are being real, Clay Matthews had a lot more to do with us winning the SB than Charles Woodson did in a brace on the sideline.

Someone had to tell Pickett to spill it. Someone had to use his helmet to knock the ball out.

Yes, we are leaving those guys out because they didn't win a Super Bowl. My point was you want a guy that is not only a really, really, really, really good football player, but also a transcendent leader and face of the defense. Actually, I think Peppers fits the bill but we just didn't get the job done. Having a guy like this doesn't guarantee you a SB win, but I also do not think it is a coincidence that we did have one the two times we did win. Let me ask you this. Who is the leader of our current defense?

It’s obviously Zadarius right? I mean he may not be a legend like Reggie but he buys teammates expensive things, gets the crowd hyped on third downs, and was a sack machine.

Ñot his fault Pettine took him out of his natural position and moved him inside to rush often this year after it showed it wasn’t going to work like it did in 2019. I also think no crowd affected Z.

But either way...he might have failed at being that guy this year...maybe...but he was brought in and paid to be that guy. You can only pay so many guys to be that guy before you have to wait until they are gone to try again.

Something that almost seems hard for some people to say (beyond this forum), is how Kenny Clark is paid 17.5m next season. That’s “be our transcendent leader money” and yes I defend him for not having any help...but he is in fact, not that guy.

Which is unfortunate for the 4th highest paid DL in the league next year.

NCF wrote: ↑

13 Feb 2021 07:06

go pak go wrote: ↑

12 Feb 2021 12:29

NCF wrote: ↑

12 Feb 2021 09:13

I will say, Z is a very talented football player... as was Clay Matthews, but they are not "that guy". Favre had Reggie and we won a Super Bowl. Rodgers had Woodson and we won a Super Bowl. Getting Watt would be that guy, that face of the defense that could get us back again. Also one of those guys that then makes Z and everyone else on defense that much better around him.

So are we just leaving out Julius Peppers and Mercedes Lewis etc. because they weren't on the roster when the team won it?

I mean if we are being real, Clay Matthews had a lot more to do with us winning the SB than Charles Woodson did in a brace on the sideline.

Someone had to tell Pickett to spill it. Someone had to use his helmet to knock the ball out.

Yes, we are leaving those guys out because they didn't win a Super Bowl. My point was you want a guy that is not only a really, really, really, really good football player, but also a transcendent leader and face of the defense. Actually, I think Peppers fits the bill but we just didn't get the job done. Having a guy like this doesn't guarantee you a SB win, but I also do not think it is a coincidence that we did have one the two times we did win. Let me ask you this. Who is the leader of our current defense?

But that's the whole point right? JJ Watt didn't win a SB either. And for Peppers in CAR and CHI, the excuse was, "he didn't have a good QB". Then he gets a good QB and still doesn't win a SB.

I just think fans sometimes fall into this crutch of "clutch" or "intangibles" which may all be fine and good, but for this particularly case, I can't say the Packers don't already have those guys or have had those guys.

And even in 2010. Honestly, Charles Woodson didn't do much outside making speeches (although Chuck made an amazing play on his collar bone injury). At least Re White had a 3 sack performance in the biggest game. We won because of Tramon Williams, BJ Raji, Clary Matthews and Sam Shields. Those were the guys who stepped up in the postseason. And yet those same guys were the guys who flopped in the 2011 - 2014 postseasons.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

13 Feb 2021 07:44

Something that almost seems hard for some people to say (beyond this forum), is how Kenny Clark is paid 17.5m next season. That’s “be our transcendent leader money” and yes I defend him for not having any help...but he is in fact, not that guy.

Which is unfortunate for the 4th highest paid DL in the league next year.

I think I agree that it's between Za'Darius and Kenny, but if we have to say that with a question mark, then is that really a face of the defense. If we bring in JJ Watt, there is no question he is immediately that guy. Doesn't mean Za'Darius and Kenny will never get there, but I think just going through the hypothetical tells you that they are not there yet.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

13 Feb 2021 07:39

But either way...he might have failed at being that guy this year...maybe...but he was brought in and paid to be that guy. You can only pay so many guys to be that guy before you have to wait until they are gone to try again.

No let's call it for what it is. He did fail. We lost and part of that loss can be attributed to generating zero sack or hurry pressure.

Our premium players in 2020 were the following:

1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Davante Adams
3. Jaire Alexander
4. Aaron Jones
5. David Bakhtiari
6. Kenny Clark
7. Zadarius Smith
8. Corey Linsley

The three players who definitely did not fail and rose to the occasion were Kenny, Jaire and Corey. Aaron Rodgers didn't hurt the team, for the most part, but also didn't make the 1 or 2 extra plays he needed to make. The rest honestly let us down in the NFC title game. David is included because he wasn't available.

No real extra "pieces" would put that group over the top. Maybe not having the liability of Kevin King in the game wouldn't have hurt, but otherwise, you have to have your playmakers and leaders step and make plays in the big games and ours just haven't in the last 10 years.

And I'm not opposed to signing JJ Watt at all as long as he actually brings production. I just think we will need more than his "personality and attitude".

Do people think he could play either a 3 or 5 Tech on the line? Or would he be only in the Preston Smith/Gary/Z mold of player?

NCF wrote: ↑

13 Feb 2021 07:59

Drj820 wrote: ↑

13 Feb 2021 07:44

Something that almost seems hard for some people to say (beyond this forum), is how Kenny Clark is paid 17.5m next season. That’s “be our transcendent leader money” and yes I defend him for not having any help...but he is in fact, not that guy.

Which is unfortunate for the 4th highest paid DL in the league next year.

I think I agree that it's between Za'Darius and Kenny, but if we have to say that with a question mark, then is that really a face of the defense. If we bring in JJ Watt, there is no question he is immediately that guy. Doesn't mean Za'Darius and Kenny will never get there, but I think just going through the hypothetical tells you that they are not there yet.

Personality-wise I don't think Kenny will become a vocal leader. He's more of a "let me beast is peace" guy.

We lack a real field general on D. Z makes practices fun, and Alexander has the confidence of a sovereign of his island. Amos is quiet and steady. Savage may become a leader as he improves on the field, but is not there yet. In that sense, Watt would be great to have.

go pak go wrote: ↑

13 Feb 2021 08:23

And I'm not opposed to signing JJ Watt at all as long as he actually brings production. I just think we will need more than his "personality and attitude".

Do people think he could play either a 3 or 5 Tech on the line? Or would he be only in the Preston Smith/Gary/Z mold of player?

Andy Herman broke it down nicely today on his podcast. I think he is very flexible and with the amount of subpackages we could play either EDGE or kick inside. He was a very productive player last year in every since other than volume stats. I would not advocate signing a guy like this to play cheerleader.

JJ Watt will improve the defense. That's why I want him signed.

I also want Verrett and Marvin Jones and an additional DL FA. Then draft BPA.

Restructuring and releasing frees up that room. I don't wanna hear that it can't be done. It can. There is a price to pay come 23 or 2024, but we have no guarantees that when Rodgers is gone that we won't be in the QB wilderness for decades. Three decades of HOF QB play has made us forget what it is like to go into the off season with yet another top ten draft pick, hoping that this is the year that we finally, finally solve the QB problem.

NCF wrote: ↑

13 Feb 2021 07:12

go pak go wrote: ↑

13 Feb 2021 07:03

I mean if I'm being perfectly honest, I would rather have Jason Verrett as our "splash" FA move.

I have no idea what he will command though either.

A lot. I wouldn't pay it with his injury history, either. As gross as it is, I would rather have Richard Sherman.

I'm not against giving a serious look at Sherman, but he's another guy that's having trouble staying on the field. Wherever he signs, I don't expect a full season from him.

Yoop wrote: ↑

13 Feb 2021 09:20

Ghost_Lombardi wrote: ↑

13 Feb 2021 09:05

JJ Watt will improve the defense. That's why I want him signed.

I also want Verrett and Marvin Jones and an additional DL FA. Then draft BPA.

Restructuring and releasing frees up that room. I don't wanna hear that it can't be done. It can. There is a price to pay come 23 or 2024, but we have no guarantees that when Rodgers is gone that we won't be in the QB wilderness for decades. Three decades of HOF QB play has made us forget what it is like to go into the off season with yet another top ten draft pick, hoping that this is the year that we finally, finally solve the QB problem.

Oh so now we have a QB problem???? NO, what we have is a coaching problem, Lafluer dropped the ball on offense, and Pettine acted like a statue as a DC, sure add Watt, hell add any player, but at the core of the issue is that coaching lacked inspiration, adjustment and fortitude to get this job done.

In 2024 Rodgers will be almost 42. I'm saying we have a 3 to 4 year window to win SBs. After that, who knows. So I'm all in on pushing the cap into future years to load up now.

Ghost_Lombardi wrote: ↑

13 Feb 2021 09:05

I also want Verrett and Marvin Jones and an additional DL FA. Then draft BPA.

I agree. I think these are the type of guys I want to shoot for as well if their price does indeed turn out right.

I love the idea of Jason Verrett in GB. I don't know why SF would let him go though if his price tag is attractive to us.

Ghost_Lombardi wrote: ↑

13 Feb 2021 09:39

Yoop wrote: ↑

13 Feb 2021 09:20

Ghost_Lombardi wrote: ↑

13 Feb 2021 09:05

JJ Watt will improve the defense. That's why I want him signed.

I also want Verrett and Marvin Jones and an additional DL FA. Then draft BPA.

Restructuring and releasing frees up that room. I don't wanna hear that it can't be done. It can. There is a price to pay come 23 or 2024, but we have no guarantees that when Rodgers is gone that we won't be in the QB wilderness for decades. Three decades of HOF QB play has made us forget what it is like to go into the off season with yet another top ten draft pick, hoping that this is the year that we finally, finally solve the QB problem.

Oh so now we have a QB problem???? NO, what we have is a coaching problem, Lafluer dropped the ball on offense, and Pettine acted like a statue as a DC, sure add Watt, hell add any player, but at the core of the issue is that coaching lacked inspiration, adjustment and fortitude to get this job done.

In 2024 Rodgers will be almost 42. I'm saying we have a 3 to 4 year window to win SBs. After that, who knows. So I'm all in on pushing the cap into future years to load up now.

I am too because honestly "cleaning up the cap" can be done in one year if you take your medicine. And the reward is good draft picks to build your next era.

I like that strategy.

I really think signing any big free agents this offseason is a pipe dream we shouldn’t get our hopes to high on. Had we not overpaid guys like Preston Smith or Billy Turner a few years back it might be possible.

I can’t see a way of fitting Watt in the cap without paying him a exorbitant amounts of money the following years where he will be closing in in his mid 30s with a body already breaking down. It’s just not realistic.

go pak go wrote: ↑

13 Feb 2021 09:45

Ghost_Lombardi wrote: ↑

13 Feb 2021 09:39

Yoop wrote: ↑

13 Feb 2021 09:20

Oh so now we have a QB problem???? NO, what we have is a coaching problem, Lafluer dropped the ball on offense, and Pettine acted like a statue as a DC, sure add Watt, hell add any player, but at the core of the issue is that coaching lacked inspiration, adjustment and fortitude to get this job done.

In 2024 Rodgers will be almost 42. I'm saying we have a 3 to 4 year window to win SBs. After that, who knows. So I'm all in on pushing the cap into future years to load up now.

I am too because honestly "cleaning up the cap" can be done in one year if you take your medicine. And the reward is good draft picks to build your next era.

I like that strategy.

welll according to you Rodgers makes to many mistakes, and isn't able to over come the mistakes of others, what makes you think all these players you want to bring in wont make more mistakes he wont be able to over come, and then in 3 years we'll be in total rebuild as a result of blowing up our cap, you guys make it sound easy to rebuild, and you can't balance the cap in ONE year, where do you get these ideas, I know whats coming next, we'll tank that year or two for better draft status.

Yoop wrote: ↑

13 Feb 2021 09:58

go pak go wrote: ↑

13 Feb 2021 09:45

Ghost_Lombardi wrote: ↑

13 Feb 2021 09:39

In 2024 Rodgers will be almost 42. I'm saying we have a 3 to 4 year window to win SBs. After that, who knows. So I'm all in on pushing the cap into future years to load up now.

I am too because honestly "cleaning up the cap" can be done in one year if you take your medicine. And the reward is good draft picks to build your next era.

I like that strategy.

welll according to you Rodgers makes to many mistakes, and isn't able to over come the mistakes of others, what makes you think all these players you want to bring in wont make more mistakes he wont be able to over come, and then in 3 years we'll be in total rebuild as a result of blowing up our cap, you guys make it sound easy to rebuild, and you can't balance the cap in ONE year, where do you get these ideas, I know whats coming next, we'll tank that year or two for better draft status.

Stop painting narratives and putting words in mouths to continue past petty fights and let my words speak for itself because I know what post just PISSED you off this morning. Enough so that it got a post deleted. It's the sentence that is bolded that REALLY pissed you off.

go pak go wrote: ↑

13 Feb 2021 08:07

The three players who definitely did not fail and rose to the occasion were Kenny, Jaire and Corey. Aaron Rodgers didn't hurt the team, for the most part, but also didn't make the 1 or 2 extra plays he needed to make. The rest honestly let us down in the NFC title game. David is included because he wasn't available.

I can say multitude of variables and plays not being made or coaches not making the right calls but you always have to circle back to the 1 of 8 players I named and it's war. I didn't say he was the reason we lost. But I will absolutely say he was a variable of not making that extra play just like the other 8 players I mentioned in my post needed to make just one more play. I don't understand what is so wrong about that. I say D Adams should have made the catch in the EZ or Allen Lazard ran the wrong route on the RPO in the endzone and you are fine with it. In fact, applaud it. I say Aaron Rodgers should have read the play to find Lazard wide open in the EZ or saw/known Bobby Tonyan as the correct read on the Lazard INT and it's take the gloves of, "how do you expect...yada yada yada rant coming." You always mention how I unfairly critique Rodgers (my post did not just blame Aaron Rodgers...in fact I don't see my post as blaming Rodgers at all) but perhaps you should consider how you unfairly always defer all blame to everyone else but Rodgers?

But honestly yoop, if history and past performance is a guide, what you said is likely absolutely correct. We keep bringing players, changing coaches, etc. and the results have been the same. Lose in the NFCCG and often by critical mistakes whether it is low level players like Ruvell Martin/Brandon Jackson in 2007 or high level players like Julius Peppers telling Morgan Burnett to slide when he should have at the LEAST ran it into FG range. However, hopelessness is not a narrative I am trying to paint. That has just simply been the story of the Green Bay Packers outside of 1 year since 1997.

I honestly don't see our chances at another ring being stronger than it was in 2020. But as for the cap, I think it really can be cleaned up in a year. You aren't taking per se. You just have a depleted roster because you cut players lose to avoid paying current year salary and a good chunk of your salary cap is simply dead money. You take the medicine. You eat the dead cap and you have a clean slate the following year.

Moving onto the new era after this window can look mighty pretty from a cap standpoint as Packfn23 said in another post. Our committed cap in '23 is very low because we don't have players signed on that year yet. You take away your high level players on the cap in 23 it will mean your roster won't be SB level, but it does mean you can go back to the drawing board with a lot of freedom in 24. Not saying rebuilding from a personnel standpoint will be easy by that time, but I am saying you can take care of your cap situation pretty easy in a year. It just means your roster won't be very good because it was forced to not be very good. A great example of that will be the 2021 Saints. If they take their medicine, their roster and cap will look like sh*t in 2021, but will be very good in 2022.

NCF wrote: ↑

13 Feb 2021 07:12

go pak go wrote: ↑

13 Feb 2021 07:03

I mean if I'm being perfectly honest, I would rather have Jason Verrett as our "splash" FA move.

I have no idea what he will command though either.

A lot. I wouldn't pay it with his injury history, either. As gross as it is, I would rather have Richard Sherman.

Give me William Jackson over both those guys any day. Hell rhodes also

Backthepack4ever wrote: ↑

13 Feb 2021 11:29

NCF wrote: ↑

13 Feb 2021 07:12

go pak go wrote: ↑

13 Feb 2021 07:03

I mean if I'm being perfectly honest, I would rather have Jason Verrett as our "splash" FA move.

I have no idea what he will command though either.

A lot. I wouldn't pay it with his injury history, either. As gross as it is, I would rather have Richard Sherman.

Give me William Jackson over both those guys any day. Hell rhodes also

I would really really like to find a way to add William Jackson and JJ Watt.

[mention]Yoop[/mention]

This thread is about JJ Watt not Aaron Rodgers. Talk about that or get the $%@# out.