Packers Huddle

Yoop wrote: ↑

10 Apr 2022 10:39

Wyatt just keeps impressing me with every write up I read, I hate drafting DT's, so many are over drafted and never duplicate college ability, but Wyatt sounds like exactly the type DT we need, Guty might have a tough choice to make if he drops to us.

I always get nervous with guys from loaded defensive units. You have to look at who is the driver there. I saw a quote from a coach that was like "Wyatt is fine, but we never had to pay attention to him. We were game planning for 99 (Davis) and 88 (Carter)."

His athletic traits indicate he has a high ceiling. His Senior Bowl performance indicated he has more juice and ability than his usage at UGA indicated. There are positive signs. But is he just the guy who benefits from being the 4th best guy on their DLine according to opposing coaches? I'm not ruling him out, but I'm wary.

UPDATE: Here it is from Bruce Feldman:

The Coaching Intel

“He’s an incredible athlete at that size. He’s not the talent 88 (Jalen Carter) is — that guy is a monster — but Wyatt’s really impressive. He’s still pretty raw but is very violent and disruptive, and he’s faster than a lot of linebackers.”

“I thought he was OK. You were so worried about 99 (Jordan Davis) and 88, you didn’t worry about him. But he’s very solid.”

I agree, YoHo. When reading about him playing around all that talent, I had to wonder if he's another John McCargo (first-round bust DT who played next to Mario Williams at NC State).

Also, I feel like I would be a way bigger Dotson guy if we had more of a need for a slot receiver. But we have Cobb and frankly, I rather see what I have in Amari next year than roll the dice on one this draft, when we have so much of a need for a boundary receiver and when the slot position is a pretty "plug 'n play" spot.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

10 Apr 2022 10:43

Yoop wrote: ↑

10 Apr 2022 10:39

Wyatt just keeps impressing me with every write up I read, I hate drafting DT's, so many are over drafted and never duplicate college ability, but Wyatt sounds like exactly the type DT we need, Guty might have a tough choice to make if he drops to us.

I always get nervous with guys from loaded defensive units. You have to look at who is the driver there. I saw a quote from a coach that was like "Wyatt is fine, but we never had to pay attention to him. We were game planning for 99 (Davis) and 88 (Carter)."

His athletic traits indicate he has a high ceiling. His Senior Bowl performance indicated he has more juice and ability than his usage at UGA indicated. There are positive signs. But is he just the guy who benefits from being the 4th best guy on their DLine according to opposing coaches? I'm not ruling him out, but I'm wary.

UPDATE: Here it is from Bruce Feldman:

The Coaching Intel

“He’s an incredible athlete at that size. He’s not the talent 88 (Jalen Carter) is — that guy is a monster — but Wyatt’s really impressive. He’s still pretty raw but is very violent and disruptive, and he’s faster than a lot of linebackers.”

“I thought he was OK. You were so worried about 99 (Jordan Davis) and 88, you didn’t worry about him. But he’s very solid.”

good point, to tell the truth I was not familiar with the Georgia DL other then Davis, thought Wyatt was the other key guy with Davis, so him being the 3rd wheel after Davis and Carter does give me pause, initially I thought he's be a good pick in the second ( we'd probably have to trade up to get him) but now I suppose he'll go in the first, I don't even want Davis, to me he is mostly a run stopping NT, which we do need run stuffers, but imo that is a long second to pass rush ability

Yoop wrote: ↑

10 Apr 2022 11:01

good point, to tell the truth I was not familiar with the Georgia DL other then Davis, thought Wyatt was the other key guy with Davis, so him being the 3rd wheel after Davis and Carter does give me pause, initially I thought he's be a good pick in the second ( we'd probably have to trade up to get him) but now I suppose he'll go in the first, I don't even want Davis, to me he is mostly a run stopping NT, which we do need run stuffers, but imo that is a long second to pass rush ability

I mean every single one of their front seven players are draftable. More than just the starters. Channing Tindall (off ball LB with great blitz ability) will be drafted this year in probably the 3rd or 4th round and he never started a game in college.

They're legit athletes. They're well-coached there. And they're assignment-sure and team-first guys.

I just, as an amateur, have trouble discerning who matters and who doesn't in terms of who's got elite skills and who is benefitting from others' elite skills. It's always something I've struggled with. I like to reference the Jon McCargo incident from NC St several years back. Mario Williams and Manny Lawson were legit talents--more Williams than Lawson, though Lawson has a very defined role as a pass rusher. And the poor Bills drafted this bum of a DT because he looked amazing on film while the edge rushers were drawing all the offense's attention.

Labrev wrote: ↑

10 Apr 2022 10:58

I agree, YoHo. When reading about him playing around all that talent, I had to wonder if he's another John McCargo (first-round bust DT who played next to Mario Williams at NC State).

Also, I feel like I would be a way bigger Dotson guy if we had more of a need for a slot receiver. But we have Cobb and frankly, I rather see what I have in Amari next year than roll the dice on one this draft, when we have so much of a need for a boundary receiver and when the slot position is a pretty "plug 'n play" spot.

Ha, I posted a reply to Yoop before seeing yours. Same exact reference point. Man, we must have been burned by McCargo, haha.

With Dotson, I agree.

We almost need too much at WR for any WR to fill our needs, but guys who might be limited in playing on the boundary just simply can't be valued early in the draft for us. We need a future #1 and a future #2 more than we need a future slot, and if we're using early picks, we need to fill those roles.

To me, Olave is a future #2, so if we draft him at 22, then we have to take a flier on a Pickens or Watson or some other elite upside player with drawbacks that push them to Day Two with hopes they can develop into The Guy

Also, on Dotson...


like I'm sorry. Gutey is not drafting a senior with an RAS below 7 in the first round. That just isn't on our menu. I spend no time on him because he runs against every trend we've ever had.

Last time I mentioned this, someone posted Gutey at the Penn St Pro Day with a caption like "paying extra close attention to Dotson's workout." I mean, ok. Penn St has 3 guys that will be drafted in the top 60 and probably 3 more draftable. I'm sure Gutey was just there for the WR, though. Not the safety (Brisker) or edge rusher (Arnold Ebiketie) or off-ball LB (Jesse Luketa, Brandon Smith) or CB (Tariq Castro-Fields) or OT (Rasheed Walker).

I don't think any of these WRs projected to go before 60 are sure-fire #1 types. I'd rather take a Watson in the 50s and a Pierce in the 90s than spend #22 on a "maybe" guy. There are other holes on this roster besides WR. At this point I hope we take best value/talent at ANY position with the Firsts.

AR has made marginal talent look good before (Boykin, for example). For all we know Malik Taylor and a FA signing is all this team needs.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

10 Apr 2022 11:29

Labrev wrote: ↑

10 Apr 2022 10:58

I agree, YoHo. When reading about him playing around all that talent, I had to wonder if he's another John McCargo (first-round bust DT who played next to Mario Williams at NC State).

Also, I feel like I would be a way bigger Dotson guy if we had more of a need for a slot receiver. But we have Cobb and frankly, I rather see what I have in Amari next year than roll the dice on one this draft, when we have so much of a need for a boundary receiver and when the slot position is a pretty "plug 'n play" spot.

Ha, I posted a reply to Yoop before seeing yours. Same exact reference point. Man, we must have been burned by McCargo, haha.

With Dotson, I agree.

We almost need too much at WR for any WR to fill our needs, but guys who might be limited in playing on the boundary just simply can't be valued early in the draft for us. We need a future #1 and a future #2 more than we need a future slot, and if we're using early picks, we need to fill those roles.

To me, Olave is a future #2, so if we draft him at 22, then we have to take a flier on a Pickens or Watson or some other elite upside player with drawbacks that push them to Day Two with hopes they can develop into The Guy

I don't think Olave is necessarily a #2 ( probably in Lafluers offense) but in a more vertical spread scheme he could do very well, his route running and speed will allow him to separate.

Dotson, a tad Smaller still has that potential, scheme fit is more important for the smaller guys.

imo we can't replace Devonte's production from any one receiver from this class, specially as a rookie, so that means we have to draft two maybe three

two years ago the team was jet sweep junkies, Dotson might be a jet sweep freak, small as he is quicks are the key for that stuff to work, I find it hard to put a finger on what Matt wants to do, when the first jetster was hurt we brought in Austin, he sucked, and since then we see very few jet sweeps, seems like a lack of personal thing because Lafluers first season we had a lot of success using that.

We've used every receiver we've had in the slot with Lafluer, size comes second to separation ability it seems with Matt, if we took London I could see him playing the slot often, he may not be able to separate but he'll win the contested catch battle, same with Burks.

lots of WR that have the speed to stretch a defense in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, we should be able to replace what we lost with MVS there, like you, I want a starting wide out with our first pick.

Ghost_Lombardi wrote: ↑

10 Apr 2022 12:30

I don't think any of these WRs projected to go before 60 are sure-fire #1 types. I'd rather take a Watson in the 50s and a Pierce in the 90s than spend #22 on a "maybe" guy. There are other holes on this roster besides WR. At this point I hope we take best value/talent at ANY position with the Firsts.

AR has made marginal talent look good before (Boykin, for example). For all we know Malik Taylor and a FA signing is all this team needs.

I feel this way, as well, but also just am pre-emptively dreading the 22 hours between pick 28 and the first of our second round picks in which the board, the talking heads, the whole sports world... just won't shut up about not taking a receiver.

But yeah, if we're going to have to project and make sacrifices and tradeoffs in prospects, why do it in round one?

I'm not AGAINST a round one WR, but I could easily see the board falling such that we don't like the options and value at that position and go elsewhere.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

10 Apr 2022 13:21

Ghost_Lombardi wrote: ↑

10 Apr 2022 12:30

I don't think any of these WRs projected to go before 60 are sure-fire #1 types. I'd rather take a Watson in the 50s and a Pierce in the 90s than spend #22 on a "maybe" guy. There are other holes on this roster besides WR. At this point I hope we take best value/talent at ANY position with the Firsts.

AR has made marginal talent look good before (Boykin, for example). For all we know Malik Taylor and a FA signing is all this team needs.

I feel this way, as well, but also just am pre-emptively dreading the 22 hours between pick 28 and the first of our second round picks in which the board, the talking heads, the whole sports world... just won't shut up about not taking a receiver.

But yeah, if we're going to have to project and make sacrifices and tradeoffs in prospects, why do it in round one?

I'm not AGAINST a round one WR, but I could easily see the board falling such that we don't like the options and value at that position and go elsewhere.

Right. If your guy is there take him. I'm cool with a wr at 22 I'm also cool with some other positions if GB really likes a guy. I do feel alot of these wrs will be good pros but to pass on a guy bc you think someone else will be there day 2 is risky business. Watson could go in the 1st. Someone might love Pierce in the 50s. Get our guy and move on.

Going to be some sad posters when we trade up to grab a wr.

Garrett Wilson is a stud.

Jameson stud

Olave stud - people want to talk about blocking... blocking ... not paying a wr 25mil a yr to block a boundary corner.

bud fox wrote: ↑

10 Apr 2022 16:55

Going to be some sad posters when we trade up to grab a wr.

Garrett Wilson is a stud.

Jameson stud

Olave stud - people want to talk about blocking... blocking ... not paying a wr 25mil a yr to block a boundary corner.

Oh, I doubt that. Draft night is all excitement.

We are only unhappy three years later if the guy is a bust.

In other words, I'd rather have the Packers win than yours truly be right.

bud fox wrote: ↑

10 Apr 2022 16:55

Going to be some sad posters when we trade up to grab a wr.

Garrett Wilson is a stud.

Jameson stud

Olave stud - people want to talk about blocking... blocking ... not paying a wr 25mil a yr to block a boundary corner.

Just to be clear, we’re only talking about blocking because someone mentioned it as a weakness and that new guy $%@# got all holier than thou insisting that wasn’t a thing, and I just wanted to step in and push back at him because he was being a $%@#.

Everyone thinks Wilson and Jameson are studs. We’re on board. Some, myself included, think London is a likely stud, too.

Most people here seem to really like Olave.
Myself, [mention]salmar80[/mention], and maybe some others are more skeptical. I see his ceiling being Terry McClauren or Calvin Ridley, which is fine if he hits that ceiling, but basically means “if he’s the focal point of your passing game, your passing game is pretty mediocre at best; if he’s a complementary piece to your passing game, you’re probably in good shape.”

For instance, Ridley’s last year with Julio is Riley’s best year. He took off. But as a number one, you’re looking at an 800-1100 yard producer and a middle of the pack passing attack.

Now back to blocking. If you’re a stud, like Davante, you can get away with being a below average blocker. If you’re a complementary piece in THIS offense, you have to be at least an above average blocker OR our stud #1 also has to be a plus blocker. So a varying opinion on how good Olave can become also creates a varying opinion on how important his inability to block is.

But if we come away from this draft with Wilson, London, or Jameson, I doubt many will complain or be unhappy with the cost of the move.

Backthepack4ever wrote: ↑

10 Apr 2022 13:28

Right. If your guy is there take him. I'm cool with a wr at 22 I'm also cool with some other positions if GB really likes a guy. I do feel alot of these wrs will be good pros but to pass on a guy bc you think someone else will be there day 2 is risky business. Watson could go in the 1st. Someone might love Pierce in the 50s. Get our guy and move on.

Absolutely.

I can easily see a scenario where at 22 the only top WR left is Burks and Dotson, and we don't love them so we go elsewhere, and then Burks goes before 28, so we wait on a WR, but then Watson, Pickens, and Sky Moore are gone before 53.

So I agree, you can't pass up a guy because you think you can get another guy, specifically. But you can say the risk/reward of spending a 1st on some of these guys isn't that appealing considering the type of risk/reward scenarios that will be available throughout Day Two of the draft.

But if we head out of draft weekend and our top WR pick was Pierce at, say, 59 (which is a touch early for my taste anyway), then we definitely will be disappointed and the need to find a hidden gem later gets more pronounced.

I think for me, the dire need throughout the WR room has changed my dynamic in terms of "if a pick turns out to be a good player, it was never a bad pick," which is usually something I would say... but this year it seems like if our best WR pick in this draft turns out to be a career #2, then we're still really lacking in that room. So I guess I'm more willing to attack elite upside with greater risk, but more swings, than to take a guy who feels limited in terms of his eventual role.

And look, I totally missed the boat on Justin Jefferson, too. Maybe Olave is that guy and I just don't see it like I didn't see it in Jefferson. I'm just one opinion, but I'm not going to withhold that opinion just because I might not be right later. That's what this place is for.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

10 Apr 2022 17:59

Backthepack4ever wrote: ↑

10 Apr 2022 13:28

Right. If your guy is there take him. I'm cool with a wr at 22 I'm also cool with some other positions if GB really likes a guy. I do feel alot of these wrs will be good pros but to pass on a guy bc you think someone else will be there day 2 is risky business. Watson could go in the 1st. Someone might love Pierce in the 50s. Get our guy and move on.

Absolutely.

I can easily see a scenario where at 22 the only top WR left is Burks and Dotson, and we don't love them so we go elsewhere, and then Burks goes before 28, so we wait on a WR, but then Watson, Pickens, and Sky Moore are gone before 53.

So I agree, you can't pass up a guy because you think you can get another guy, specifically. But you can say the risk/reward of spending a 1st on some of these guys isn't that appealing considering the type of risk/reward scenarios that will be available throughout Day Two of the draft.

But if we head out of draft weekend and our top WR pick was Pierce at, say, 59 (which is a touch early for my taste anyway), then we definitely will be disappointed and the need to find a hidden gem later gets more pronounced.

I think for me, the dire need throughout the WR room has changed my dynamic in terms of "if a pick turns out to be a good player, it was never a bad pick," which is usually something I would say... but this year it seems like if our best WR pick in this draft turns out to be a career #2, then we're still really lacking in that room. So I guess I'm more willing to attack elite upside with greater risk, but more swings, than to take a guy who feels limited in terms of his eventual role.

And look, I totally missed the boat on Justin Jefferson, too. Maybe Olave is that guy and I just don't see it like I didn't see it in Jefferson. I'm just one opinion, but I'm not going to withhold that opinion just because I might not be right later. That's what this place is for.

I don't hate your comparisons for Olave and I see Desean Jackson with that clean deep separation. I disagree that type of player can't be a 1 - they just won't have the volume numbers of Kupp, Adams, Jones types due to stretching the field more often.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

10 Apr 2022 17:59

I think for me, the dire need throughout the WR room has changed my dynamic in terms of "if a pick turns out to be a good player, it was never a bad pick," which is usually something I would say... but this year it seems like if our best WR pick in this draft turns out to be a career #2, then we're still really lacking in that room. So I guess I'm more willing to attack elite upside with greater risk, but more swings, than to take a guy who feels limited in terms of his eventual role.

Also, there are no guarantees, especially with this year's wide receiver class. Would much rather cast a wide net than put our eggs all in one basket. If that means missing out on Williams or Wilson, so be it. If one of them was Ja'Marr Chase like, I might consider it, but unfortunately they are not.

I would not be surprised if Christian Watson is the pick at 22...

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

10 Apr 2022 19:40

I would not be surprised if Christian Watson is the pick at 22...

So many drops tho!

Career Drops

George Pickens: 2.1%

Skyy Moore: 3.3%

Chris Olave: 4.7%

Jahan Dotson: 5.1%
Drake London: 5.7

Alec Pierce: 6.4%
Garrett Wilson: 6.8%

Justyn Ross: 7.1%
Treylon Burks: 7.4%
Jameson Williams: 7.7%

Jalen Tolbert: 8.4%



Christian Watson: 12.7%

The thing about the WRs in this class is that you basically get to pick 3 out of the 4: height, weight, speed, production. (Production can stand in to an extent for how developed your game is)

Garrett Wilson - height-ish, speed, production
Drake London - height, weight, production
Jameson Williams - height, speed, production
Chris Olave - height-ish, speed, production
Trey Burks - height, weight, production

Jahan Dotson - speed-ish, production (yeah, like 1.5 out of 4)
George Pickens - height, speed, production-ish (big breakout early is good production, but missed 2021)
Christian Watson - height, weight, speed
Skyy Moore - weight, speed, production
Alec Pierce - height, weight, speed
David Bell - height, weight, production
John Metchie - production, weight
Jalen Tolbert - height, weight, speed-ish, production-ish... huh. I don't like him that much, but...

Anyway. A lot of people are going to prefer to get the production and developed game over one of the other traits. I'm in the mood to value the traits, double or triple down on them to play the odds that we hit a couple home runs or a grand slam. It's a valid debate. It's a good conversation to be had. I can understand wanting to prioritize other things, especially if the thinking is that it makes them "more ready to contribute" since we're in a very immediate win-now window.

But for me? I want to take 2 or 3 swings in the top 100 picks at the best height-weight-speed guys we can find and bet that we wind up with an elite #1 out of the group. This draft sets the foundation for whether or not Rodgers gets to finish his career with an elite WR playing alongside him. I'm trying to find That Dude. I think some of you are trying to find anyone who can almost definitely add anything immediately. I get it.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

10 Apr 2022 19:40

I would not be surprised if Christian Watson is the pick at 22...

I think the Packer fan base is vastly overrating the draft status of Christian Watkins because of how perfectly he fits for our current needs and situation.

I think that George Pickens and probably even Skyy Moore could come off the board before Watson does. I see him as a pick around 35-45 and I want him there.

I'd love to trade back from 28 to 40 and 41 from the Seahawks and double dip with Pickens and Watson right there. Put them in a strength program and develop them together? Dynamic AF.