Packers Huddle

paco wrote: ↑

23 Apr 2021 08:53

While I don't follow Breer too closely anymore, there has been a lot of talk about Jamin as of late being a 1st rounder. But this is the first I've seen someone mention top 20.

Kiper/McShay's dual mock a couple days ago had him at 19, also.

I just traded up to 42 to get him in that last mock I did.

He's probably my favorite LB I've watched this year. Granted I didn't watch much of any of Parson given he'll be long gone.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

23 Apr 2021 08:56

paco wrote: ↑

23 Apr 2021 08:53

While I don't follow Breer too closely anymore, there has been a lot of talk about Jamin as of late being a 1st rounder. But this is the first I've seen someone mention top 20.

Kiper/McShay's dual mock a couple days ago had him at 19, also.

didn't see there mock, most mocks I've seen have him at the end of round one or early second do mostly because of lack of experience as a starter imo, I brought his right up from JS Online on page 21 of this thread, I wouldn't be shocked to see him picked sooner.

BF004 wrote: ↑

23 Apr 2021 09:20

I just traded up to 42 to get him in that last mock I did.

He's probably my favorite LB I've watched this year. Granted I didn't watch much of any of Parson given he'll be long gone.

Seems to be some growing sentiment that Parsons may not be the 1st LBer taken and may fall down into our range.

paco wrote: ↑

23 Apr 2021 12:22

Seems to be some growing sentiment that Parsons may not be the 1st LBer taken and may fall down into our range.

That would be absurd and we should scoop him right the heck up if so. What is this because of the locker room bully stuff?

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

23 Apr 2021 12:34

paco wrote: ↑

23 Apr 2021 12:22

Seems to be some growing sentiment that Parsons may not be the 1st LBer taken and may fall down into our range.

That would be absurd and we should scoop him right the heck up if so. What is this because of the locker room bully stuff?

Not sure. Seen a few comments out there that guys like JOK, Zaven, and Jamin will go off the board first. Some very high on Browning and Bolton too.
But didn't see reasons. I have 0 opinion myself.

I am starting to narrow in on Edge for us if we pick at 29. This is assuming the top 4 CBs are gone by our pick.

paco wrote: ↑

23 Apr 2021 12:40

Not sure. Seen a few comments out there that guys like JOK, Zaven, and Jamin will go off the board first. Some very high on Browning and Bolton too.
But didn't see reasons. I have 0 opinion myself.

I am starting to narrow in on Edge for us if we pick at 29. This is assuming the top 4 CBs are gone by our pick.

I would really like a guy that can rush and cover; the sort of role Preston struggled with. An off-ball LB that has some edge experience and capabilities like Zaven Collins or Derrick Barnes... or an EDGE who has standup LB experience like Joseph Ossai would be really nice. I think if we're going to run some 3 DL, 2 EDGE defenses we need guys who can either rush or cover on a given down, and if you assume it's some combo of Z, Gary, and Clark filling three rushing roles, then the coverage part of that responsibility takes on enhanced value.

So I'm more interested in a LB/edge combo player than in a LB/S combo player...

But an EDGE at 29 with the Smiths and Gary on the roster would be really a tough swallow, especially a pure edge

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

23 Apr 2021 13:19

paco wrote: ↑

23 Apr 2021 12:40

Not sure. Seen a few comments out there that guys like JOK, Zaven, and Jamin will go off the board first. Some very high on Browning and Bolton too.
But didn't see reasons. I have 0 opinion myself.

I am starting to narrow in on Edge for us if we pick at 29. This is assuming the top 4 CBs are gone by our pick.

I would really like a guy that can rush and cover; the sort of role Preston struggled with. An off-ball LB that has some edge experience and capabilities like Zaven Collins or Derrick Barnes... or an EDGE who has standup LB experience like Joseph Ossai would be really nice. I think if we're going to run some 3 DL, 2 EDGE defenses we need guys who can either rush or cover on a given down, and if you assume it's some combo of Z, Gary, and Clark filling three rushing roles, then the coverage part of that responsibility takes on enhanced value.

So I'm more interested in a LB/edge combo player than in a LB/S combo player...

But an EDGE at 29 with the Smiths and Gary on the roster would be really a tough swallow, especially a pure edge

I get where you are coming from. For 2021 they probably won't help much. But with no guarantee either Smith is with us after 2021, Edge makes a ton of sense if you are planning to move on. And given what the 1st round is looking like and our tendencies, I think its very possible.

I have 8 Edge guys with 1st or end round grades, all of which I've seen listed as possible 1st rounders. The OL class seems to have more questions and is deeper. WR and CB are deeper as well. If you take LB off the table due to our usual trends and it Edge starts looking more likely. I'll never be upset by an Edge pick, even if it isn't what I prefer. Impact position that you can't have enough of and the really good ones are more rare.

paco wrote: ↑

23 Apr 2021 13:28

I have 8 Edge guys with 1st or end round grades, all of which I've seen listed as possible 1st rounders. The OL class seems to have more questions and is deeper. WR and CB are deeper as well. If you take LB off the table due to our usual trends and it Edge starts looking more likely. I'll never be upset by an Edge pick, even if it isn't what I prefer. Impact position that you can't have enough of and the really good ones are more rare.

Wow, you're on an island there. EDGE is considered very weak by most. Every top-end player is riddled with risks and questions. There are guys considered likely to go in the first round who have previously been medically retired by their school or had 0 sacks.

I agree that WR, CB, and OL are deeper. But they're also MUCH better.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

23 Apr 2021 14:17

paco wrote: ↑

23 Apr 2021 13:28

I have 8 Edge guys with 1st or end round grades, all of which I've seen listed as possible 1st rounders. The OL class seems to have more questions and is deeper. WR and CB are deeper as well. If you take LB off the table due to our usual trends and it Edge starts looking more likely. I'll never be upset by an Edge pick, even if it isn't what I prefer. Impact position that you can't have enough of and the really good ones are more rare.

Wow, you're on an island there. EDGE is considered very weak by most. Every top-end player is riddled with risks and questions. There are guys considered likely to go in the first round who have previously been medically retired by their school or had 0 sacks.

I agree that WR, CB, and OL are deeper. But they're also MUCH better.

I admit, I haven't done that much draft work this year. While Edge isn't deep, there seems to be these 8 or so guys that are Day 1 or day 2 guys and then it falls off hard after that. But they get a bump and risks and questions ignored more because they are Edge players. Normally several would be 3rd/4th rounders, but expect most to go 1st or 2nd. My list (in no specific order)
Kwity Paye - Only guaranteed 1st IMO.
Jayson Oweh
Jaelan Phillips
Azeez Ojulari
Joseph Ossai
Carlos Basham
Joe Tryon
Gregory Rousseau

Regardless, I think what most can agree on is this draft has maybe 3 "can't miss prospects" and that's it. Lawrence, Pitts, and Sewell. Can probably add Chase. But the rest all have questions this year.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

23 Apr 2021 13:19

paco wrote: ↑

23 Apr 2021 12:40

Not sure. Seen a few comments out there that guys like JOK, Zaven, and Jamin will go off the board first. Some very high on Browning and Bolton too.
But didn't see reasons. I have 0 opinion myself.

I am starting to narrow in on Edge for us if we pick at 29. This is assuming the top 4 CBs are gone by our pick.

I would really like a guy that can rush and cover; the sort of role Preston struggled with. An off-ball LB that has some edge experience and capabilities like Zaven Collins or Derrick Barnes... or an EDGE who has standup LB experience like Joseph Ossai would be really nice. I think if we're going to run some 3 DL, 2 EDGE defenses we need guys who can either rush or cover on a given down, and if you assume it's some combo of Z, Gary, and Clark filling three rushing roles, then the coverage part of that responsibility takes on enhanced value.

So I'm more interested in a LB/edge combo player than in a LB/S combo player...

But an EDGE at 29 with the Smiths and Gary on the roster would be really a tough swallow, especially a pure edge

grades this year on players are all over the place, specially guys like Parsons that didn't play last year and come out as Juniors , it's why ya see him falling out of the top 10 or 15, CBS has him going #17 which I expect is about where he'll go,

Taking a bigger guy like Zavon would seem to be a great fit sense we could rotate him Z. Smith and Gary, maybe even Prestin between edge rusher, inside or off ball ILB, adding a lot of versatility and disguising our pre snaps, plus we'd have two Z players to go along with 2 Smith players.

Zavan Collins is not my first choice as a off ball lber though, no one can convince me that a guy that runs 4.6 and weighs 260 plus (over 270 a week ago) will man up well with TE's or RB's, it's the reason Parsons wont fall far, and Jamin Davis is shooting up draft boards, teams want more speed and Range from there 4 dn LBers

paco wrote: ↑

23 Apr 2021 14:32

I admit, I haven't done that much draft work this year. While Edge isn't deep, there seems to be these 8 or so guys that are Day 1 or day 2 guys and then it falls off hard after that. But they get a bump and risks and questions ignored more because they are Edge players. Normally several would be 3rd/4th rounders, but expect most to go 1st or 2nd. My list (in no specific order)

So I agree with this part, which is why I can't see us taking one. We have no need significant enough to "bump" players up our draft board due to positional value. Teams desperate for edge rushing help will over-value risky or underwhelming players, and they will select the upper tier of edge rushers. A team that is more disciplined with its board and doesn't have an immediate need to fill there, will not execute the bump, and thus the chance of an EDGE being the top player on OUR board when our pick comes due seems miniscule at best.

I also think that the type of guys we would normally love--Paye and Basham, for instance--are the safest bets to go early, and I'm not SURE we want more of those guys--the DL/EDGE hybrid types like Gary and Z especially, and to a lesser extent Preston. So I'm very much out on edge in the first two rounds. We gotta hunt for value there, and the early rounds are going to be full of players getting overdrafted due to need

I appreciate the info YoHo. Every viewpoint helps me in trying to understand this thing last minute!

This Baltimore/KC trade is going to throw a wrench in things too. Will Balt stick with their 2 1sts now or trade up for a WR? Maybe they can finally get Gettleman to trade down and grab a WR.

Yoop wrote: ↑

23 Apr 2021 14:38

Taking a bigger guy like Zavon would seem to be a great fit sense we could rotate him Z. Smith and Gary, maybe even Prestin between edge rusher, inside or off ball ILB, adding a lot of versatility and disguising our pre snaps, plus we'd have two Z players to go along with 2 Smith players.

Yeah, that's my thought.

And I agree that the flight of faster rangier LBs up the draft board is due to the demands of the game and usually I'm there, likeing speed. Though I will say, 4.6s is pretty normal for good LBs.

I'm thinking that we're likely to have 2 basic nickel packages in terms of the "front 6" players.

We'll have the 2 DL, 2 EDGE, 2 LBs
And we'll have the 3 DL, 2 EDGE, 1 LB

In the first, you can have Clark and Keke on the DL; Gary, Z, and Preston rotating among the edge spots, and Collins, Barnes, and Martin rotating in the 2 LB spots.

In the second you can have Clark, Gary, Z, and Keke rotating through the 3 DL spots; Preston, Collins, Z, and Gary rotating at the EDGE spots; and Barnes or Martin at the LB spot.

That much rotation and flexibility gives you options as to how you line up within the same personnel grouping. The ability of Collins and Preston (and athletically Gary, if he develops that skillset) to stay in zone coverage rather than rush keeps defenses guessing even more.

I just feel like the off-ball LB who can also line up and rush off the edge is the versatile piece we're missing for that.

Doesn't have to be Collins, like I said. But he's the first of a few that would fit the bill. Well, Parsons would too if he isn't expectedly long gone.

paco wrote: ↑

23 Apr 2021 14:44

I appreciate the info YoHo. Every viewpoint helps me in trying to understand this thing last minute!

This Baltimore/KC trade is going to throw a wrench in things too. Will Balt stick with their 2 1sts now or trade up for a WR? Maybe they can finally get Gettleman to trade down and grab a WR.

Yeah I live in Ravens country and my buddy is dreaming of Bateman and Barmore at 27 and 32 and I had to tell him that I can't imagine Bateman, as WR4 or 5, lasting even to 25 at this point. But a further trade up would be interesting for them.

They're a team that I could see taking an EDGE player, especially if Basham is there. He's a really good fit for them and many draftniks I respect think he's being underrated by draft media relative to how teams will view him.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

23 Apr 2021 14:52

paco wrote: ↑

23 Apr 2021 14:44

I appreciate the info YoHo. Every viewpoint helps me in trying to understand this thing last minute!

This Baltimore/KC trade is going to throw a wrench in things too. Will Balt stick with their 2 1sts now or trade up for a WR? Maybe they can finally get Gettleman to trade down and grab a WR.

Yeah I live in Ravens country and my buddy is dreaming of Bateman and Barmore at 27 and 32 and I had to tell him that I can't imagine Bateman, as WR4 or 5, lasting even to 25 at this point. But a further trade up would be interesting for them.

They're a team that I could see taking an EDGE player, especially if Basham is there. He's a really good fit for them and many draftniks I respect think he's being underrated by draft media relative to how teams will view him.

Since we are talking Edge, what do you know about Rashad Weaver? He's a guy with massive difference of opinions. I've seen him viewed as the 2nd or 3rd best Edge all the way down to barely draftable. I had him on my radar as a day 3 pick.

I just listened to a pod cast with Silverstein (SP) and he's probably the 4th or 5th football person that said there isn't a DT in this class actually worthy of a 1st round grade, he said Barmore was probably the most ready to play, and he might be picked mid to late 20's, the next best might be there if we want him, but i'd be a reach and a prayer at our slot.

I hope we can line up value to player, either move up or back a few slots and take ........, I'am torn between not only which player, but also which position, as I said prior, the DL class is very mediocre, and we have reached for and missed far to often with that position, hell Clark out of about 8 taken the last decade is the only one that played up to his pick slot, so even though we have a need I'd rather wait till the later rounds to try and fill it, bring Snacks back.

so I'd be happy with a CB, or a guy like Davis, a OL, I'd hate to use a first on a center even though that kid from WI has drawn some pretty good reviews but if the coaches have concerns with Patrick then that would be a good pick to.

from what I can see we'll have our choice of a few players that could quickly improve our team both on offense and defense, this should be a exciting draft, we have a lot of picks (ammo) to move around for a player we like.

this week has been dragging along, Thursday can't come soon enough.

Yoop wrote: ↑

23 Apr 2021 15:07

so I'd be happy with a CB, or a guy like Davis, a OL, I'd hate to use a first on a center even though that kid from WI has drawn some pretty good reviews but if the coaches have concerns with Patrick then that would be a good pick to.

Ok, I've been thinking about that; same, I'd hate to use a first on a C.

But I can't help but think how, if the medicals shake out, Landon Dickerson is just the type of OL we've been going for lately. Has just enough movement to be a zone scheme blocker, but is more of a brute people mover. Seems in line with the Turner acquisition, the Wagner acquisition, the Jenkins draft pick, and the Hanson and Stepaniak picks. Only Runyan is more of the "old model" that we all grew very comfortable with and I still look for. In that mold, we could also grab Creed Humphrey who is someone who many smart people think could slide into the first round as a plug and play center with elite athleticism.