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Re: Packers @ Raiders GDT: Monday, Oct 9th, 7:15pm CST
Posted: 10 Oct 2023 09:05
by BF004
Whatever verbiage you’d like to use, go for it if it helps you sleep better. We are paying the price now for sticking with a lot of vets we couldn’t afford to keep ourselves as competitive as possible given the circumstances post Love draft for two years.
Re: Packers @ Raiders GDT: Monday, Oct 9th, 7:15pm CST
Posted: 10 Oct 2023 14:02
by Pugger
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 08:48
Need to really stop saying we went all in with Rodgers when damn near the entire 2020 draft class was made go replace him and then traded a top 3 WR away.
We never went all in. Gutenbumst gave the illusion of going all in by just pushing money out on bad existing contracts like Dean Lowry, Billy Turder, Mercedes Lewis, Kevin King, etc…
That top 3 WR
wanted out. If memory serves we offered him more money than LV did and he left anyway. I don't know what more Gute and company could have done in that situation.
Re: Packers @ Raiders GDT: Monday, Oct 9th, 7:15pm CST
Posted: 10 Oct 2023 14:04
by Pugger
wallyuwl wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 08:52
RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 08:32
We should be looking forward, not back.
I look forward to MLF and his crew of lame coaches getting ousted. And also looking forward to Jordan and his receivers flourishing under a new offensive coordinator. And also consistently witnessing a defense that allows fewer than 20 points.
MLF has at least through 2024 guaranteed without getting fired. Just how it is. And the team that should on paper make the divisional round next year will not make the playoffs largely due to his coaching decisions.
What about this roster today makes you believe it should make the divisional round next year?
Re: Packers @ Raiders GDT: Monday, Oct 9th, 7:15pm CST
Posted: 10 Oct 2023 17:16
by texas
Pugger wrote: ↑09 Oct 2023 22:33
texas wrote: ↑09 Oct 2023 22:18
Drj820 wrote: ↑09 Oct 2023 20:55
Guess it comes down to what it came down to in the off-season…what’s your definition of rebuilding year?
Are we Super Bowl contenders..No
Should a team with 8 first rounders on d compete for a playoff spot? Yes in my opinion.
Rebuilding to me is bottom 1/4 of league, so a top 8 draft pick.
This team should be way better than that.
Yeah, I don't think we're bottom 8, so not that bad of a rebuild. But all of the decisions made by the front office resulted in taking our lumps this year (as opposed to previous years or future years). So it is clear to me that to the extent we needed to pay the piper, they deliberately chose this year to do it.
Yup. But I recall Rodgers had issues when he took over for Farve. D. Adams struggled his first 2/3 seasons too. We all have to realize this is a rebuilding year. We have some nice talent to work with so patience is needed right now.
I remember Rodgers pretty much being perfect even after taking over. The problem in 2008 was our defense. Rodgers wasn't yet the MVP-caliber guy he later became, but I remember thinking he was quite good. From what I remember, we gave him a lot of easy check downs and routes to gradually bring him along, rather than letting him go wild right away.
Love isn't Rodgers and I don't expect him to be Rodgers. Rodgers is maybe the most perfect QB of all time, in terms of not making mistakes, but this style doesn't necessarily win championships as we all know. I expect Love to make more boneheaded plays and errant throws, but as long as he can move the ball down the field consistently, he could end up outperforming Rodgers when it's all said and done. Rodgers didn't exactly leave a high bar to overcome in the playoffs.
Re: Packers @ Raiders GDT: Monday, Oct 9th, 7:15pm CST
Posted: 11 Oct 2023 03:31
by CWIMM
RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 08:32
I look forward to MLF and his crew of lame coaches getting ousted. And also looking forward to Jordan and his receivers flourishing under a new offensive coordinator. And also consistently witnessing a defense that allows fewer than 20 points.
The defense has played pretty well over the first five games of this season. Unfortunately Alexander might be right that they can't allow any touchdowns for the Packers to win moving forward.
BF004 wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 08:37
Well this is just factually incorrect by like every conceivably metric. All time wins, super bowl era wins, last 3 decades wins, last 5-10 years wins, Super Bowls, division titles, playoff appearances, prestige, reputation. This team is perpetually competitive. They are really well run compared to their competition.
They just haven't been run well enough to get it done more, meet expectations. We all knew this would be a bit of a process moving on from Rodgers, and we are paying the price for going all in with him for the final 2-3 years. Nothing should really be surprising this year.
Murphy is at retirement age. LaFleur, Gute and Love all pretty much got about 14 more months to get this back on track again or I am sure more than a few changes will be made.
It's entirely possible that having two HOF quarterbacks starting for the team since 1992 covered up for a lot of shortcomings in the front office.
texas wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 17:16
Rodgers didn't exactly leave a high bar to overcome in the playoffs.
Actually, Rodgers played very well in the playoffs for the most part. His passer rating of 100.1 is one of the best all time. It's tough to win with the defense giving up a ton of points in most games though.
Re: Packers @ Raiders GDT: Monday, Oct 9th, 7:15pm CST
Posted: 11 Oct 2023 05:56
by Yoop
BF004 wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 08:37
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 01:16
bud fox wrote: ↑10 Oct 2023 01:09
We also have the easiest schedule overall.
Right.
I just don’t understand Packers fans.
Two years ago the fans want to blame the QB for not scoring more in the playoffs. We trade one of the best WRs in the league.
The following year we want to blame the 4 time overall, back to back MVP QB.
When are we going to start looking inward? Who is loose are we going to blame? We blamed Capers. Then we blamed MM. Then we blamed Pettine. Then we blamed Rodgers. Then we blamed Barry.
This team is run like &%$@ from the top down. But it’s a “narrative.” Well good luck continuing to trying to dispute my narrative that look more and more like reality.
Well this is just factually incorrect by like every conceivably metric. All time wins, super bowl era wins, last 3 decades wins, last 5-10 years wins, Super Bowls, division titles, playoff appearances, prestige, reputation. This team is perpetually competitive. They are really well run compared to their competition.
They just haven't been run well enough to get it done more, meet expectations. We all knew this would be a bit of a process moving on from Rodgers, and we are paying the price for going all in with him for the final 2-3 years. Nothing should really be surprising this year.
Murphy is at retirement age. LaFleur, Gute and Love all pretty much got about 14 more months to get this back on track again or I am sure more than a few changes will be made.
the direction Ted took after drafting Adams will always baffle me, the over whelming focus to build defense as we lost Nelson, then Cobb continued till 2022, and we can count on one hand the victory's garnered because of this defense all these years, so to me that was wasting Rodgers career.
all water over the bridge now, we need to get this OL blocking better or we'll have wasted Love too.
Re: Packers @ Raiders GDT: Monday, Oct 9th, 7:15pm CST
Posted: 11 Oct 2023 07:50
by Drj820
Ted had to draft defense because the defensive roster became god awful. The issue is he drafted bust after bust. From demaryous rankle to haha Clinton dix, none of the guys actually helped build a good defense outside of Kenny Clark.
Gute is running into a similiar problem except he’s adding about one good player a draft. But it takes years to fill a defense with good players that way. Neither have shown they can find good players on d in the mid rounds.
Re: Packers @ Raiders GDT: Monday, Oct 9th, 7:15pm CST
Posted: 11 Oct 2023 08:27
by Yoop
Drj820 wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 07:50
Ted had to draft defense because the defensive roster became god awful. The issue is he drafted bust after bust. From demaryous rankle to haha Clinton dix, none of the guys actually helped build a good defense outside of Kenny Clark.
Gute is running into a similiar problem except he’s adding about one good player a draft. But it takes years to fill a defense with good players that way. Neither have shown they can find good players on d in the mid rounds.
true, but his DL misses made play tougher for Dix, and even Randle, Ted was wise to bring in Peppers to help Mathews, minus pass rush and any secondary will struggle, I can't remember all the names of the DL busts in Teds tenure
last year Gute took 3 DLiners, simply because we have to get pressure, maybe one should have been a O liner.
Re: Packers @ Raiders GDT: Monday, Oct 9th, 7:15pm CST
Posted: 11 Oct 2023 13:31
by texas
CWIMM wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 03:31
Actually, Rodgers played very well in the playoffs for the most part. His passer rating of 100.1 is one of the best all time. It's tough to win with the defense giving up a ton of points in most games though.
This is why you need the eye test and can't rely on stats.
We all know what Rodgers did in the playoffs. Sure, he wouldn't throw INTs, but he would go into a shell against good defenses and just take sacks, and go 3 and out repeatedly. They'd let us get some points in garbage time or the 4th quarter to pad those stats, sure. But it was a hallmark of the MM era in the playoffs to get into these early deficits by going 3 and out constantly, and then rarely claw back.
Re: Packers @ Raiders GDT: Monday, Oct 9th, 7:15pm CST
Posted: 11 Oct 2023 13:39
by Labrev
Rodgers is statistically good in the playoffs due to playing pretty well in the wild card and divisional games, for the most part.
It was the conference championship that was his undoing, which yes usually entails facing a truly elite defense.
Re: Packers @ Raiders GDT: Monday, Oct 9th, 7:15pm CST
Posted: 11 Oct 2023 13:43
by bud fox
Labrev wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 13:39
Rodgers is statistically good in the playoffs due to playing pretty well in the wild card and divisional games, for the most part.
It was the conference championship that was his undoing, which yes usually entails facing a truly elite defense.
No it wasn't. He played better than Brady. He played better than Jimmy g.
Unfortunately rodgers couldn't play Def or special teams.
Re: Packers @ Raiders GDT: Monday, Oct 9th, 7:15pm CST
Posted: 11 Oct 2023 14:30
by wallyuwl
bud fox wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 13:43
Labrev wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 13:39
Rodgers is statistically good in the playoffs due to playing pretty well in the wild card and divisional games, for the most part.
It was the conference championship that was his undoing, which yes usually entails facing a truly elite defense.
No it wasn't. He played better than Brady. He played better than Jimmy g.
Unfortunately rodgers couldn't play Def or special teams.
Yeah, it was a mixed bag. AR played well in some of the NFCCG. He played poorly in some of the other playoff losses. In 2016 they were so outmatched by ATL it wasn't a fair fight.
Re: Packers @ Raiders GDT: Monday, Oct 9th, 7:15pm CST
Posted: 11 Oct 2023 14:38
by Yoop
bud fox wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 13:43
Labrev wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 13:39
Rodgers is statistically good in the playoffs due to playing pretty well in the wild card and divisional games, for the most part.
It was the conference championship that was his undoing, which yes usually entails facing a truly elite defense.
No it wasn't. He played better than Brady. He played better than Jimmy g.
Unfortunately rodgers couldn't play Def or special teams.
this is so laugh out loud funny, now the word is any ol average QB can win the big games as long as the supporting cast is ?????? better?????? then what we've assembled in over a decade, that should be on some comedy hour program
Rodgers got the blame for every PO loss, and almost every other lose in the last decade, never mind that the supporting cast couldn't carry a corpse.
Re: Packers @ Raiders GDT: Monday, Oct 9th, 7:15pm CST
Posted: 11 Oct 2023 14:47
by Labrev
Yoop wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 14:38
this is so laugh out loud funny, now the word is any ol average QB can win the big games as long as the supporting cast is ?????? better?????? then what we've assembled in over a decade, that should be on some comedy hour program
So why did Jimmy G's team beat Rodgers?
Re: Packers @ Raiders GDT: Monday, Oct 9th, 7:15pm CST
Posted: 11 Oct 2023 14:57
by Yoop
Labrev wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 14:47
Yoop wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 14:38
this is so laugh out loud funny, now the word is any ol average QB can win the big games as long as the supporting cast is ?????? better?????? then what we've assembled in over a decade, that should be on some comedy hour program
So why did Jimmy G's team beat Rodgers?
well why do you think? do you need Bud to tell you again?
you and others here have blamed Rodgers when the defense couldn't get off the field and the ST's blew the leads with penalties or mistakes.
take away Rodgers and add some ol average QB and we rarely even win this division the last 10 years
Re: Packers @ Raiders GDT: Monday, Oct 9th, 7:15pm CST
Posted: 11 Oct 2023 15:09
by Labrev
Yoop wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 14:57
Labrev wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 14:47
Yoop wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 14:38
this is so laugh out loud funny, now the word is any ol average QB can win the big games as long as the supporting cast is ?????? better?????? then what we've assembled in over a decade, that should be on some comedy hour program
So why did Jimmy G's team beat Rodgers?
well why do you think? do you need Bud to tell you again?
you and others here have blamed Rodgers when the defense couldn't get off the field and the ST's blew the leads with penalties or mistakes.
So average QBs *can* win big games. Thanks for finally admitting it!
Re: Packers @ Raiders GDT: Monday, Oct 9th, 7:15pm CST
Posted: 11 Oct 2023 15:20
by Yoop
Labrev wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 15:09
Yoop wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 14:57
Labrev wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 14:47
So why did Jimmy G's team beat Rodgers?
well why do you think? do you need Bud to tell you again?
you and others here have blamed Rodgers when the defense couldn't get off the field and the ST's blew the leads with penalties or mistakes.
So average QBs *can* win big games. Thanks for finally admitting it!
well I can tell you this much, if Love does become average we will be hard pressed to ever win this division again while he remains our QB.
we don't draft well enough or play defense well enough to make that happen.
Re: Packers @ Raiders GDT: Monday, Oct 9th, 7:15pm CST
Posted: 11 Oct 2023 15:22
by bud fox
Labrev wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 15:09
Yoop wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 14:57
Labrev wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 14:47
So why did Jimmy G's team beat Rodgers?
well why do you think? do you need Bud to tell you again?
you and others here have blamed Rodgers when the defense couldn't get off the field and the ST's blew the leads with penalties or mistakes.
So average QBs *can* win big games. Thanks for finally admitting it!
Of course they can. But average qbs with average teams can't.
Rodgers was a great qb with an average team and we are all seeing that now.
When packers team was quality we won a Sb.
Went nearly undefeated and lost to Sb champs putting up more points than any other team did against them in the play-offs.
2012 def let in 45 points against niners
2013 kap rushed for 100 yards
2014 lost in OT to seahawks $%&#.
Re: Packers @ Raiders GDT: Monday, Oct 9th, 7:15pm CST
Posted: 11 Oct 2023 15:24
by Yoop
Yoop wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 15:20
Labrev wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 15:09
Yoop wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 14:57
well why do you think? do you need Bud to tell you again?
you and others here have blamed Rodgers when the defense couldn't get off the field and the ST's blew the leads with penalties or mistakes.
So average QBs *can* win big games. Thanks for finally admitting it!
when Rodgers is inducted to the HOF it wont be as a average QB you can bank on that.
Re: Packers @ Raiders GDT: Monday, Oct 9th, 7:15pm CST
Posted: 11 Oct 2023 15:27
by Yoop
bud fox wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 15:22
Labrev wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 15:09
Yoop wrote: ↑11 Oct 2023 14:57
well why do you think? do you need Bud to tell you again?
you and others here have blamed Rodgers when the defense couldn't get off the field and the ST's blew the leads with penalties or mistakes.
So average QBs *can* win big games. Thanks for finally admitting it!
Of course they can. But average qbs with average teams can't.
Rodgers was a great qb with an average team and we are all seeing that now.
When packers team was quality we won a Sb.
Went nearly undefeated and lost to Sb champs putting up more points than any other team did against them in the play-offs.
2012 def let in 45 points against niners
2013 kap rushed for 100 yards
2014 lost in OT to seahawks $%&#.
he was referring to Rodgers as a average QB