The 2013 Packers went to the postseason without Rodgers. Yes it was because the division was bad, but I think that team could have squeaked out a 10-6 record if Matt Flynn was the backup sooner.
The 2019 Packers became the #2 seed without elite quarterback play. So I just don't see why the Packers are this horrible franchise that is bailed out by one player for a decade.
The only difference I really see that an elite quarterback brings to the table is the team can consistently be a contender year in and year out. Your good teams without top QB play are only one year wonders and fade the following year.
I think what bothers me most is the Packers are always blamed for wasting Rodgers career and why Rodgers hasn't won more rings. There never seems to be much accountability on Rodgers. Like how about Aaron you go win a game when it matters?
I will always agree that the Packers organization failed significantly starting with the 2015 draft until Ted departed outside of Kenny Clark. That I don't think there is any argument against.
The 2013 Packers went to the postseason without Rodgers. Yes it was because the division was bad, but I think that team could have squeaked out a 10-6 record if Matt Flynn was the backup sooner.
The 2019 Packers became the #2 seed without elite quarterback play. So I just don't see why the Packers are this horrible franchise that is bailed out by one player for a decade.
The only difference I really see that an elite quarterback brings to the table is the team can consistently be a contender year in and year out. Your good teams without top QB play are only one year wonders and fade the following year.
I think what bothers me most is the Packers are always blamed for wasting Rodgers career and why Rodgers hasn't won more rings. There never seems to be much accountability on Rodgers. Like how about Aaron you go win a game when it matters?
I will always agree that the Packers organization failed significantly starting with the 2015 draft until Ted departed outside of Kenny Clark. That I don't think there is any argument against.
ever heard of the hail mary pass Rodgers is noted for them, what lacks accountability, is spending so much our our resources on defense that where never able to hold a lead and forced Rodgers to play all out till the last play of the game which often he pulled out, firing 40 yrd bullets to march down the field with the go ahead score, we have often seen Rodgers actually will a win, adjust called plays to achieve a higher % of success, which actually worked out often.
as I've said, Adams was the last high round WR taken, over 6 years ago, prior it was Cobb a couple years prior, that alone imho is indefensible QB abuse, the whole FO should feel ashamed of themselves, (Joking, a little) it's time to juice up the position though, and with someone that strikes fear in a defense, some that demands a over the top eyeball, and doubles underneath, I like Bateman, but I suppose he'll be scarfed up early 20's.
Re: Aaron Freaking Rodgers
Posted: 03 Apr 2021 23:10
by texas
Chances Jeopardy offers Rodgers the permanent host position and he retires this offseason or next?
ever heard of the hail mary pass Rodgers is noted for them, what lacks accountability, is spending so much our our resources on defense that where never able to hold a lead and forced Rodgers to play all out till the last play of the game which often he pulled out, firing 40 yrd bullets to march down the field with the go ahead score, we have often seen Rodgers actually will a win, adjust called plays to achieve a higher % of success, which actually worked out often.
as I've said, Adams was the last high round WR taken, over 6 years ago, prior it was Cobb a couple years prior, that alone imho is indefensible QB abuse, the whole FO should feel ashamed of themselves, (Joking, a little) it's time to juice up the position though, and with someone that strikes fear in a defense, some that demands a over the top eyeball, and doubles underneath, I like Bateman, but I suppose he'll be scarfed up early 20's.
Adams is a top 2 WR in the league.
Last season Tonyan was a top 3 TE in the league
For the last 2 seasons Jones has been the best receiving RB in the league.
Lazard is at least an average WR#2.
MVS ain't chopped liver
Rodgers has plenty of weapons. The Packers did not win the SB this year for 3 reasons. Bak got hurt, the Packers did not have a competent backup at LT and King got owned.
The way that Rodgers has made himself the most likeable, approachable, and well known quarterback to everyone who likes football and doesn't like football the last 12 months has been amazing.
If he keeps the pace, he may honestly be the most popular player in NFL history. He just seems to have the entire package going for him right now.
Acrobat: please provide a list of QB's that don't throw air balls, sure some are obvious misses, others that appear to be could be the fault of the receiver, but every QB throws a errant ball.
The 2013 Packers went to the postseason without Rodgers. Yes it was because the division was bad, but I think that team could have squeaked out a 10-6 record if Matt Flynn was the backup sooner.
The 2019 Packers became the #2 seed without elite quarterback play. So I just don't see why the Packers are this horrible franchise that is bailed out by one player for a decade.
The only difference I really see that an elite quarterback brings to the table is the team can consistently be a contender year in and year out. Your good teams without top QB play are only one year wonders and fade the following year.
I think what bothers me most is the Packers are always blamed for wasting Rodgers career and why Rodgers hasn't won more rings. There never seems to be much accountability on Rodgers. Like how about Aaron you go win a game when it matters?
I will always agree that the Packers organization failed significantly starting with the 2015 draft until Ted departed outside of Kenny Clark. That I don't think there is any argument against.
This. That's my big and really only complaint about Rodgers. We've now lost 4 NFCCGs in a row and I can say that all of them were average to somewhat good performances by Rodgers. Not saying he's a choker and yes there are definitely other reasons why the Packers lost those games, but at the same time can you really say "Wow Rodgers was so on and I can't believe we still lost" for any of those 4 games?
Re: Aaron Freaking Rodgers
Posted: 05 Apr 2021 09:54
by Drj820
well i think once we get to the NFCCG thats another thing. Most of us are just saying that take out Aaron Rodgers and add in a competent yet average starter to the Green Bay Packers after 2014 with Mike McCarthy the coach, and they are not a playoff team.
Rodgers has covered many sins.
Re: Aaron Freaking Rodgers
Posted: 05 Apr 2021 10:59
by Pckfn23
Nothing more than mental masturbation. If Rodgers is not on the team after 2014, the team would in no way stay the same.
A lot of things could have been better from 2011 to 2020 and Rodgers was among those things.
Re: Aaron Freaking Rodgers
Posted: 05 Apr 2021 11:15
by Drj820
interesting wording to execute your point. Interesting to say the least.
well i think once we get to the NFCCG thats another thing. Most of us are just saying that take out Aaron Rodgers and add in a competent yet average starter to the Green Bay Packers after 2014 with Mike McCarthy the coach, and they are not a playoff team.
Rodgers has covered many sins.
I mean we weren't a playoff team after our 5-0 start in 2015 with Rodgers until 2019. We didn't make the playoffs because Rodgers "covered sins". We made the playoffs because we rode off our 5-0 start and some absolute luck against the Detroit Lions.
I think the only sins Rodgers ever really covered for the Packers after Halloween 2015 was the "run the table stretch" in 2016. Which was absolutely amazing by the way.
But when I look at the Packers and Rodgers after our 5-0 start in 2015, I see the following:
2015 - both offense and defense stunk. Honestly I still think overall the defense was the more impressive factor against AZ in the playoffs by holding that high flying Cards offense to only a couple of scores. The legend of Rodgers in 2015 is really only founded on 3 hail mary shots that went our way.
2016 - All Rodgers, Adams and Cook after December 2016. Unequivocally can be stated Rodgers put the team on his back.
2017 - Incomplete. There was reason to be excited for both sides of the ball. But the rails fell off hard when Rodgers went down and that was more to do with the supporting cast (outside of Adams) quitting on the Packers.
2018 - Both were bad.
2019 - Defense and rushing attack largely carried the team.
2020 - Best Rodgers has performed in this window.
When you really step back and look at the data, I would say 1.5 season Rodgers was good enough to cover any sins. Yet at the same point the 2020 roster was good enough where sins didn't need to be covered. They were legit the best team in the NFL. One season where the team by and large helped carry Rodgers and the rest was either incomplete or both stunk and the team stunk because of it.
Again I am not saying Rodgers isn't amazing. Because he is. But I think there is a lot of inherent bias based on the Packers doing nothing for Rodgers and Rodgers completely bailing out the Packers due to 3 passes in 2015 and 6 games in 2016 which has really set the narrative about Rodgers carrying the Packers on his back for the last decade.
2017 - Incomplete. There was reason to be excited for both sides of the ball. But the rails fell off hard when Rodgers went down and that was more to do with the supporting cast (outside of Adams) quitting on the Packers.
Injury to Ty Montgomery and Jordy Nelson (and in many ways, Randall Cobb) falling off a cliff had plenty to do with things, too. I guess it led to the discovery of Aaron Jones, but for some reason Mike McCarthy didn't see what the rest of us saw and still forced Jamaal Williams down our throats for way too long. Looking back at it, what did we really expect from Hundley. I think it is pretty telling that Rodgers comes back into the fold and we still win fewer games then without him. Three (THREE!!!) home shutouts over the course of 2 seasons. Ugly, ugly offense.
2017 - Incomplete. There was reason to be excited for both sides of the ball. But the rails fell off hard when Rodgers went down and that was more to do with the supporting cast (outside of Adams) quitting on the Packers.
Injury to Ty Montgomery and Jordy Nelson (and in many ways, Randall Cobb) falling off a cliff had plenty to do with things, too. I guess it led to the discovery of Aaron Jones, but for some reason Mike McCarthy didn't see what the rest of us saw and still forced Jamaal Williams down our throats for way too long. Looking back at it, what did we really expect from Hundley. I think it is pretty telling that Rodgers comes back into the fold and we still win fewer games then without him. Three (THREE!!!) home shutouts over the course of 2 seasons. Ugly, ugly offense.
Hundley was really good early, early in his career in preseason. Plus we weren't too far removed from "everything the Packers touch turns to gold" era.
So there was reason to believe Hundley could go at least .500 for us in time for Rodgers to come back and take on us a playoff run.
2017 - Incomplete. There was reason to be excited for both sides of the ball. But the rails fell off hard when Rodgers went down and that was more to do with the supporting cast (outside of Adams) quitting on the Packers.
Injury to Ty Montgomery and Jordy Nelson (and in many ways, Randall Cobb) falling off a cliff had plenty to do with things, too. I guess it led to the discovery of Aaron Jones, but for some reason Mike McCarthy didn't see what the rest of us saw and still forced Jamaal Williams down our throats for way too long. Looking back at it, what did we really expect from Hundley. I think it is pretty telling that Rodgers comes back into the fold and we still win fewer games then without him. Three (THREE!!!) home shutouts over the course of 2 seasons. Ugly, ugly offense.
Hundley was really good early, early in his career in preseason. Plus we weren't too far removed from "everything the Packers touch turns to gold" era.
So there was reason to believe Hundley could go at least .500 for us in time for Rodgers to come back and take on us a playoff run.
But reality set in pretty quick.
Hundley is a great example of QB's doing pretty good till the games matter, lets hope Lovey is one that thrives under game pressure, just as Aaron Rodgers has for most of his career( cept the injury seasons), he raises the talent level of almost everyone on offense.
stats can do two things, they tell us both good and bad about a player, but they can't tell us what led to either, such as injury's or lack of supporting cast, which has been evident concerning the ability of this offense a few seasons in the past.
last time we picked a ready to rock WR was 2014, since then it's been a bunch of groomers, who the hell does that with a once in a lifetime QB like Rodgers? makes no sense and never did, just look at 2011, with almost no running game, and a defense on the decline, Rodgers and his stable of receiver took us to 15-1, I rest my case, Rodgers doesn't need much, give him a few quality receivers and he'll light up a score board.
The 2013 Packers went to the postseason without Rodgers. Yes it was because the division was bad, but I think that team could have squeaked out a 10-6 record if Matt Flynn was the backup sooner.
The 2019 Packers became the #2 seed without elite quarterback play. So I just don't see why the Packers are this horrible franchise that is bailed out by one player for a decade.
The only difference I really see that an elite quarterback brings to the table is the team can consistently be a contender year in and year out. Your good teams without top QB play are only one year wonders and fade the following year.
I think what bothers me most is the Packers are always blamed for wasting Rodgers career and why Rodgers hasn't won more rings. There never seems to be much accountability on Rodgers. Like how about Aaron you go win a game when it matters?
I will always agree that the Packers organization failed significantly starting with the 2015 draft until Ted departed outside of Kenny Clark. That I don't think there is any argument against.
This. That's my big and really only complaint about Rodgers. We've now lost 4 NFCCGs in a row and I can say that all of them were average to somewhat good performances by Rodgers. Not saying he's a choker and yes there are definitely other reasons why the Packers lost those games, but at the same time can you really say "Wow Rodgers was so on and I can't believe we still lost" for any of those 4 games?
you can't pin any of those losses on Rodgers, this isn't Brett Favre where talking about, who did actually snatch defeat from victory in more then a couple playoff games, Rodgers can't run the routes for the receiver or catch the ball, AR has been the least of our problems in playoff games, most of it is either lack of talent or lack of coaching.
Injury to Ty Montgomery and Jordy Nelson (and in many ways, Randall Cobb) falling off a cliff had plenty to do with things, too. I guess it led to the discovery of Aaron Jones, but for some reason Mike McCarthy didn't see what the rest of us saw and still forced Jamaal Williams down our throats for way too long. Looking back at it, what did we really expect from Hundley. I think it is pretty telling that Rodgers comes back into the fold and we still win fewer games then without him. Three (THREE!!!) home shutouts over the course of 2 seasons. Ugly, ugly offense.
Hundley was really good early, early in his career in preseason. Plus we weren't too far removed from "everything the Packers touch turns to gold" era.
So there was reason to believe Hundley could go at least .500 for us in time for Rodgers to come back and take on us a playoff run.
But reality set in pretty quick.
Hundley is a great example of QB's doing pretty good till the games matter, lets hope Lovey is one that thrives under game pressure, just as Aaron Rodgers has for most of his career( cept the injury seasons), he raises the talent level of almost everyone on offense.
stats can do two things, they tell us both good and bad about a player, but they can't tell us what led to either, such as injury's or lack of supporting cast, which has been evident concerning the ability of this offense a few seasons in the past.
last time we picked a ready to rock WR was 2014, since then it's been a bunch of groomers, who the hell does that with a once in a lifetime QB like Rodgers? makes no sense and never did, just look at 2011, with almost no running game, and a defense on the decline, Rodgers and his stable of receiver took us to 15-1, I rest my case, Rodgers doesn't need much, give him a few quality receivers and he'll light up a score board.
Yeah I don't know if I would put Hundley in the "pressure" category or more that we saw a steady decline from Hundley in his play after his 2015 rookie preseason. It's just that we didn't really ever get a chance to evaluate Hundley's decline because he was injured in the 2016 preseason which led to the Packer fandom of Callahan and I believe already Taysom Hill. By 2017 preseason, it was pretty apparent that Hundley stunk during his play in the preseason but we didn't have any other options and stuck with him. (in fact a lot of Packers fans were mad we put Hundley over Callahan and Taysom Hill who had much better preseasons).
And I have a hard time putting Adams as a "ready to rock" WR. Adams to me was much more of a "patience is necessary" receiver similar to Jordy Nelson was. Davante just didn't really do much until his coming out party vs the Titans and Eagles in 2016. And even then, there was significant inconsistency in Adams until he proved he could be effective even with Hundley as QB in 2017.
I don't think people quite remember how long it took for Adams to blossom. Like he was basically our bona-fide #1 WR in 2015 and 2016 or at the least should have been co-#1 WR with James Jones or Jordy Nelson in 2015 and 2016. So for that he caught a lot of balls, but his production only saw 200 more yards than MVS and 3 more TDs than MVS for their first 3 seasons in the league.
Rodgers can't run the routes for the receiver or catch the ball, AR has been the least of our problems in playoff games, most of it is either lack of talent or lack of coaching.
What if it was the receivers can't throw the ball on target or the coach make the correct reads.
Rodgers is noted for them, what lacks accountability, is spending so much our our resources on defense that where never able to hold a lead and forced Rodgers to play all out till the last play of the game which often he pulled out, firing 40 yrd bullets to march down the field with the go ahead score, we have often seen Rodgers actually will a win, adjust called plays to achieve a higher % of success, which actually worked out often.
