Re: 2021 NFL Draft Discussion
Posted: 28 Apr 2021 21:32
by YoHoChecko
Davante Adams is 6' 0 7/8" exactly half an inch taller. Bateman's arms are about a quarter inch longer. His height is fine.
Bateman's weight is allegedly down a bit since COVID, so he'll probably play closer to 195 or 200, but let's say he slimmed down to pad speed stats....
He ran a 4.39. I don't trust that because it's not what I see on tape. He's probably closer to a 4.5 guy in game speed, maybe at his playing weight.
But that's fine. Davante Adams was a 4.56 guy.
The thing about Adams is that he is really good at route running, creating space, releases, and working hard.
Measurables matter; but for the most part they matter to say "you have to have AT LEAST a certain level of athleticism. Then you can be a good player or a bad player based on the rest."
Bateman is a good football receiver. He isn't getting drafted because of his height, and he has enough. He isn't getting drafted because hius weight, and he has enough. And he's not getting drafted for his speed, and he has enough of it.
He's getting drafted for how well he plays the position within those traits. It dictates that there may be certain roles in which he'd be more effective than others--he shouldn't be your team's primary deep threat, for instance. Nor is he a "just get it in his hands and he can fly in open space" guy. He's a receiver who creates really good separation and has a really good feel for holes in zones and route-running in man and lining up at different positions.
So, like, I'm not at all trying to dismiss the usefulness of measurables. He's not in the top half of the first round for a reason, here. He might go from 20 all the way to 45 for a reason. But the difference between 6'2" 210, 4.52 and 6'0 190 and 4.39 are not a really significant alteration of his value, because those aren't the traits you're depending on when you draft him based on film.
Re: 2021 NFL Draft Discussion
Posted: 29 Apr 2021 09:09
by Pckfn23
McGinn's 18 Personnel People:
Best player in the draft
1. Kyle Pitts, TE, Florida: 36 points (6 firsts)
2. Trevor Lawrence, QB, Clemson: 34 points (9 firsts)
3. Ja’Marr Chase, WR, LSU: 18 points (2 firsts)
4. Penei Sewell, T, Oregon: 7 points
5. Patrick Surtain II, CB, Alabama: 4 points
6.(tie) Najee Harris, RB, Alabama (one first); Micah Parsons, LB, Penn State; Zach Wilson, QB, Brigham Young: 3 points
Favorite player to scout in the draft (pick one)
1. Pitts: 5½ votes
2.(tie) Chase; Elijah Moore, WR, Ole Miss 2 votes each
4. Wilson: 1½ votes
5.(tie) Lawrence; Harris; Travis Etienne, RB, Clemson; Rondale Moore, WR, Purdue; Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, LB, Notre Dame; Kadarius Toney, WR, Florida; Javonte Williams, RB, North Carolina: 1 vote each
Best defensive player in the draft (pick one)
1. Surtain II: 9 votes
2. Parsons: 4 votes
3.(tie) Jaycee Horn, CB, South Carolina; Jaelan Phillips, Edge, Miami: 2 votes each
5.(tie) Christian Barmore, DT, Alabama; Jamin Davis, LB, Kentucky: ½ vote each
Re: 2021 NFL Draft Discussion
Posted: 29 Apr 2021 09:12
by Pckfn23
Mcginn's top 100:
Offense (50 players)
Wide receivers (13)
1. Ja’Marr Chase, LSU: Reminded me of Sterling Sharpe — only much faster.
2. DeVonta Smith, Alabama: He was impossible to cover in the college game.
3. Jaylen Waddle, Alabama: It shouldn’t be forgotten that he’s also the leading kick returner in the draft.
4. Elijah Moore, Mississippi: Many scouts loved watching him perform.
5. Kadarius Toney, Florida: Closest thing to Tyreek Hill in this draft.
6. Rashod Bateman, Minnesota: Much better in 2019 than in ’20.
7. Rondale Moore, Purdue: Much, much better in 2018 than in ’19 or ’20.
8. Terrace Marshall Jr., LSU: Some teams are concerned about his knee issues.
9. Amari Rodgers, Clemson: Operates from the slot in much the same way Randall Cobb did in Green Bay for eight years.
10. D’Wayne Eskridge, Western Michigan: Still rough around the edges but brimming with big-play potential.
11. Dyami Brown, North Carolina: Deep threat averaged 20.3 yards per catch in 2019, 20.0 yards per catch in ’20.
12. Amon-Ra St. Brown, USC: Most scouts view him as a better prospect than his brother, Equanimeous St. Brown, a wideout for the Packers.
13. Tutu Atwell, Louisville: Little big man produced for the Cardinals but needs to expand his duties and handle punt return in the pros.
Tight ends (5)
1. Kyle Pitts, Florida: Destined to become the matchup nightmare of all matchup nightmares.
2. Pat Freiermuth, Penn State: These days, not every team clamors for a conventional tight end. Those that do would want this guy.
3. Tommy Tremble, Notre Dame: His aggressiveness leaped off the tape.
4. Brevin Jordan, Miami: Fits the modern game, but his 40 time of 4.66 didn’t help.
5. Hunter Long, Boston College: Mark Chmura made it big as a “Y” tight end out of Chestnut Hill a generation ago.
Offensive linemen (20)
1. Penei Sewell, T, Oregon: Hasn’t played much ball but has the horsepower to make a considerable impact.
2. Rashawn Slater, T/G, Northwestern: Chris Hinton set the standard for Wildcats offensive linemen in the 1980s.
3. Alijah Vera-Tucker, G, USC: One of the safest picks on the draft board.
4. Christian Darrisaw, T, Virginia Tech: Will be pushed to fulfill his immense promise in the NFL.
5. Teven Jenkins, T, Oklahoma State: Outstanding workout solidified his bid for the first round.
6. Liam Eichenberg, T, Notre Dame: Another in a continuous line of reliable tackles from South Bend.
7. Landon Dickerson, C/G, Alabama: Massive man in the middle with a mean streak but a long injury history.
8. Samuel Cosmi, T, Texas: His boffo workout was better than his play.
9. Alex Leatherwood, T/G, Alabama: Whether it’s tackle or guard, he should be a solid starter.
10. Dillon Radunz, T, North Dakota State: Scouts think he has the feet to start at tackle fairly early in his career.
11. Jackson Carman, G/T, Clemson: His focus and maturity likely will tell the story of his career.
12. Jalen Mayfield, T, Michigan: Had the poorest workout of the leading linemen, but it’s what happens on the field that matters.
13. Creed Humphrey, C, Oklahoma: He’s a far better athlete than some scouts ever imagined.
14. Quinn Meinerz, C/G, Wisconsin-Whitewater: He’s the darling of Division III. It all changed for him at the Senior Bowl.
15. Walker Little, T, Stanford: A blown knee in 2019 and a ’20 opt-out left teams with little to go on.
16. Aaron Banks, G, Notre Dame: As a wide-body guard, he has few equals.
17. Josh Myers, C, Ohio State: His short arms are a problem, but he still projects as a starter relatively early in his career.
18. Dan Moore, T/G, Texas A&M: His 36 starts at left tackle in the Southeastern Conference can’t be understated.
19. Larry Borom, T/G, Missouri: He’s a former basketball player with the feet to pass protect.
20. Robert Hainsey, G/C, Notre Dame: Will have to move inside, but all he did as a starting right tackle for three years was block his man.
Quarterbacks (7)
1. Trevor Lawrence, Clemson: One of the two or three best prospects in the draft.
2. Zach Wilson, Brigham Young: An exciting talent appears headed into the crucible that is the Jets.
3. Justin Field, Ohio State: His talent is remarkable. All he needs is refinement.
4. Mac Jones, Alabama: Maybe he’s A.J. McCarron. Or maybe he’s Tom Brady.
5. Trey Lance, North Dakota State: Needs time and training, and it remains to be seen if his new employer can afford to provide it.
6. Kyle Trask, Florida: He’s an old-fashioned pocket passer with a strong chin and a good arm.
7. Kellen Mond, Texas A&M: Improved as a senior.
Running backs (5)
1. Najee Harris, Alabama: He’s a much better prospect than his draft slot would indicate.
2. Travis Etienne, Clemson: An understated home run threat from a spread offense.
3. Javonte Williams, North Carolina: His ability to ricochet off tacklers and bleed carries was reminiscent of Frank Gore.
4. Michael Carter, North Carolina: On the short side at 5-foot-8, but that’s almost an advantage these days.
5. Kenneth Gainwell, Memphis: Former Tigers running backs have flourished of late in the NFL.
Defense (50)
Defensive linemen (7)
1. Christian Barmore, Alabama: Finally played like a first-round draft choice in the College Football Playoff.
2. Levi Onwuzurike, Washington: Opted out in 2020, then practiced just one day at the Senior Bowl, leaving a thin résumé.
3. Osa Odighizuwa, UCLA: On the small side but moves well and turned heads all week (at the Senior Bowl) in Mobile, Ala.
4. Dayo Odeyingbo, Vanderbilt: Not even the torn Achilles that he suffered in mid-January prevented scouts from talking up his game.
5. Alim McNeill, North Carolina State: Will bring a ton of athletic ability to his new team.
6. Jay Tufele, USC: His decision to opt out in 2020 left scouts scrambling for fresh evaluations.
7. Milton Williams, Louisiana Tech: His pro day was an all-timer.
Edge rushers (13)
1. Jaelan Phillips, Miami: According to most personnel people, he’s the best pass rusher in the draft.
2. Kwity Paye, Michigan: His production hasn’t matched his ability.
3. Gregory Rousseau, Miami: The consummate boom-or-bust prospect.
4. Jayson Oweh, Penn State: How is it possible for a player of his rare speed and athleticism not to record a single sack in seven starts last season?
5. Joseph Ossai, Texas: One of the hardest-playing prospects in the draft.
6. Azeez Ojulari, Georgia: Versatile enough to play outside linebacker in a 3-4, right end in a 4-3 or “sam” linebacker in a four-man front.
7. Joe Tryon, Washington: Suffered meniscus damage during his pro-day workout and might fall in the draft.
8. Carlos Basham, Wake Forest: The GMs who prefer big men off the edge will like Basham.
9. Ronnie Perkins, Oklahoma: An undersized outside pass rusher who can rock tackles who overset against him.
10. Payton Turner, Houston: Has the frame and weight-gain history to fit any scheme.
11. Rashad Weaver, Pittsburgh: One of those unassuming pass rushers who have found a knack for getting home in the college game.
12. Elerson Smit, Northern Iowa: Lost last year to a COVID 19-canceled season but took significant strides in the offseason.
13. Cameron Sample, Tulane: Hardworking, talented interior rushers always are welcome.
Linebackers (11)
1. Micah Parsons, Penn State: That 4.36 clocking in the 40 at 6-foot-3 and 246 pounds was one for the books.
2. Jeremian Owusu-Koramoah, Notre Dame: Look out if his new team finds the perfect fit and turns him loose.
3. Zaven Collins, Tulsa: Probably not the next Brian Urlacher, but there are similarities.
4. Jamin Davis, Kentucky: Came out of nowhere in 2020 and now could land in the first round.
5. Nick Bolton, Missouri: The label “physical” is used for too many middle linebackers, but it fits him.
6. Pete Werner, Ohio State: His approach to the game is marked by extraordinary intensity.
7: Monty Rice, Georgia: Kirby Smart didn’t use him on a lot of passing downs, but that 4.58 40 will give him a chance to play full-time in the NFL.
8. Chazz Surratt, North Carolina: His decision to move from quarterback to linebacker in 2019 couldn’t have worked out better.
9. Jabril Cox, LSU: Helped himself with a 4.60 40 on Monday, possibly the last of the pre-draft timings.
10. Derrick Barnes, Purdue: A whole bunch of scouts like a lot about this player.
11. Baron Browning, Ohio State: Possibly fits better rushing as a 3-4 outside linebacker than getting bogged down trying to play inside.
Cornerbacks (12)
1. Patrick Surtain II, Alabama: Is there anything not to like?
2. Jaycee Horn, South Carolina: Seems headed for a prosperous career just like his father, Joe, enjoyed a generation ago.
3. Caleb Farley, Virginia Tech: Teams love his talent. Teams fear his injury history.
4. Greg Newsome II, Northwestern: A smooth, confident performer who couldn’t avoid nagging injuries.
5. Tyson Campbell, Georgia: Has too much talent to make so few plays on the ball.
6. Asante Samuel Jr., Florida State: Should walk in the door as the No. 1 slot nickel.
7. Eric Stokes, Georgia: The fastest of a swift corps of cornerbacks.
8. Kelvin Joseph, Kentucky: For sure, he has first-round ability. It’s the off-field factors that might cause him to fall.
9. Ifeatu Melifonwu, Syracuse: His brother, Obi, didn’t pan out with the Raiders, but he has everything it takes to flourish in a zone system.
10. Aaron Robinson, UCF: Should carve out a niche for himself as a slot nickel sooner than later.
11. Paulson Adebo, Stanford: Smart, steady zone corner who opted out in 2020.
12. Benjamin St-Juste, Minnesota: Tore it up at the Senior Bowl and pro day.
Safeties (7)
1. Trevon Moehrig, Texas Christian: No reason he can’t become one of the league’s better safeties.
2. Richie Grant, UCF: His 40 time was mediocre, but his production wasn’t.
3. Jevon Holland, Oregon: Offers slot cover speed and skill.
4. Andre Cisco, Syracuse: Delivers size, speed and smarts but is coming off an ACL tear last fall.
5. Elijah Molden, Washington: Not that big, not that fast. Just makes plays.
6. Divine Deablo, Virginia Tech: His size-speed ratio might be the equal of anyone in the draft.
7. Caden Sterns, Texas: Played better earlier than late during his three seasons as a starter but came through with an eye-popping pro day.
Next in line (10)
WR: Tylan Wallace, Oklahoma State
OL: D’Ante Smith, T, East Carolina; Kendrick Green, G-C, Illinois; Spencer Brown, T, Northern Iowa
RB: Larry Rountree III, Missouri; Trey Sermon, Ohio State
Edge: Malcolm Koonce, Buffalo; Patrick Jones, Pittsburgh
LB: Ernest Jones, South Carolina
S: Tyree Gillespie, Missouri
Re: 2021 NFL Draft Discussion
Posted: 02 May 2021 06:48
by salmar80
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑02 May 2021 06:12
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑02 May 2021 00:44
So is Kirk Cousins going to demand to be traded, hold out, or retire now too?
Not until draft day next year
No, because there's a magical line after the 32nd pick. Amazing things happen above it, nothing of note below.
Only QBs drafted above that count as legitimate gripes. Love at 26? Existential threat to AR. Love at 33? No problem, he'd just be an easily ignored 2nd rounder and everything would be great!
Also, all WRs drafted after 1st round are worthless and can be utterly dismissed regardless of career production. Jordy would've been great, had we not traded down for him. We coulda had 74 TDs to a 1st round receiver, but now we got nothing. Adams? Who? We could've drafted Kelvin Benjamin in the 1st, and because he was a 1st rounder, AR would've had a weapon! Missed that opportunity, too. Such bad GMing.
