The call was correct and justified. People just have the bias because they wanted to see a spectacular finish with Hurts trying to either tie or win the game, even if they didn't have a preference of who won. It's really that simple.
you defended the penalty, and thought the ref shouldn't have made the call, thats what I disagreed with, the reason we dont agree is I wont give in to your opinion, talk about a thin skin, you simply don't like being told your WRONG.
Wtf?
you take the cake, I simply pointed out it was a proper call, and your opinion was LET THEM PLAY, you want to allow interference?
you said you don't have a horse in the game, yet support the grab,
No. My point was "okay yoop. let's agree to disagree" and you then go to this accusing me of thin skinned and my not liking being told I'm WRONG.
Look in the mirror dude. You escalated that sucker pretty quick.
The DB even admitted he grabbed the jersey. He hoped it was just not get called. Also, maybe it was his injury but Hurts couldn't throw very far on the hail mary attempt. Why try that if the QB doesn't have to arm to throw that far?
up to that call I thought Philly got away with another non call by a official, Shuster was interfered with on a earlier play, plus the 2 play reviews that went the Eagles way, I thought the fumble that was ruled incomplete was actually a fumble.
other then those 4 or 5 plays I though the refs did a fair job, just a really hard fought game.
You are right on most of those points. But the non-fumble was truly a non-fumble, by definition of the rule.
The DB did by-rule hold (grabbed/tugged a little jersey) on the play, so yes it was technically callable.
But, I do not believe it materially impacted the play. Smith still beat his man and was open, and it did not look like a catchable ball to me even if Smith had not been slowed at all.
In a case like that, it shouldn't be called, IMO.
If they tried to call all instances of that sort of holding/PI, then we would be inundated with flags every game and the sport would be unwatchable. I have seen a few of our games where the ref crew for the game calls everything, and refball is not much fun to watch.
how could you know that, a grab in that situation slowed Shuster a lot, that play is practiced a lot, Mahomes and Shuster have that timing down pat.
I did not claim to know. I said I "believe" it was impactful and that it did not "look" (to me) impactful. It's an opinion.
maybe it wouldn't have mattered, but it allowed KC to run down the clock and kick the game winning FG, and only give the Eagles mere seconds to run a play, no one would be arguing this if it wasn't a game deciding penalty.
Yeah, that's the whole problem.
yep, it became a problem for the Eagles, nay not have cost them the game, but it sure made it more difficult for them.
also you taint your opinion Buddy with your refusal to admit how hard take off is disrupted when a receiver is held up when making his cut, the DB near stopped Shuster cold in that process, easily impeding his momentum, which is magnified as his route progresses, it easily could have accounted for the two strides short of the pitch point
maybe so, point is it was a penalty and should be called, just as the one earlier that wasn't called, and there was enough doubt on the non fumble and side line bubble to take 5 minutes each to get to a conclusion, first he made the catch, had control and turned to run, then dropped the ball, the sideline bobble was also close, I didn't have a issue with either, but I do with PI.
I think there was also a no call on a Eagles defender jumping the neutral zone, so if anything a few close calls went the Eagles way.
Those other things are not being disputed. That they are brought up does not really change the one play. No one is saying the Eagles or Chiefs got the benefit of the refs, simply that it was a &%$@ way to end what was a pretty good game, and one that maybe didn't need to happen.
go rewatch the right hand grab the shoulder first, that stopped Shuster cold,
I think you might want to do as you suggest as this description is not accurate. There was a pull on the jersey, but not grab on the shoulder that "stopped Schuster cold."
ya it is, here you are again telling me your version which is wrong, the right hand hooked the shoulder of Shuster, then slid down and grabbed the jersey, thats classic PI, I did it often when I played, it's a tech every DB learns, as the DB said, I did it and hoped I wouldn't get caught.
the DB near stopped Shuster cold in that process, easily impeding his momentum
This just didn't happen. Schuster was running a whip route, which is slant in then cut back outside on a wheel. Schuster's route redirected him, not the DB.
The jersey pull, while to the letter is a hold did not appreciably affect his route. It certainly did not affect it enough where he could have caught up to the 5 yard "overthrow."
The DB even admitted he grabbed the jersey. He hoped it was just not get called. Also, maybe it was his injury but Hurts couldn't throw very far on the hail mary attempt. Why try that if the QB doesn't have to arm to throw that far?
up to that call I thought Philly got away with another non call by a official, Shuster was interfered with on a earlier play, plus the 2 play reviews that went the Eagles way, I thought the fumble that was ruled incomplete was actually a fumble.
other then those 4 or 5 plays I though the refs did a fair job, just a really hard fought game.
You are right on most of those points. But the non-fumble was truly a non-fumble, by definition of the rule.
I suppose, only because he didn't take a step, but he caught it, had control and made the turn, he just didn't take a step, I've seen it called a fumble in other games, discretion of the officials, it took plenty of time in a booth review to make that decision, again, I think most calls last night favored the Eagles.
Re: Super Bowl LVII
Posted: 13 Feb 2023 10:44
by Pckfn23
There is no football move made here. This is an incomplete pass in any decade.
Those other things are not being disputed. That they are brought up does not really change the one play. No one is saying the Eagles or Chiefs got the benefit of the refs, simply that it was a &%$@ way to end what was a pretty good game, and one that maybe didn't need to happen.
I think you might want to do as you suggest as this description is not accurate. There was a pull on the jersey, but not grab on the shoulder that "stopped Schuster cold."
ya it is, here you are again telling me your version which is wrong, the right hand hooked the shoulder of Shuster, then slid down and grabbed the jersey, thats classic PI, I did it often when I played, it's a tech every DB learns, as the DB said, I did it and hoped I wouldn't get caught.
the DB near stopped Shuster cold in that process, easily impeding his momentum
This just didn't happen. Schuster was running a whip route, which is slant in then cut back outside on a wheel. Schuster's route redirected him, not the DB.
The jersey pull, while to the letter is a hold did not appreciably affect his route. It certainly did not affect it enough where he could have caught up to the 5 yard "overthrow."
that view doesn't show it as well, the side view shows the DB's right hand pulling back on the shoulder, it spun Shuster back, then the DB right hand slide down and grabbed the jersey, the hit to the shoulder is classic DB 101, been taught since I was a kid, and rarely called, but is just as affective as a jersey grab, which usually is called, thats my opinion on this subject, we can agree to disagree.
ya it is, here you are again telling me your version which is wrong, the right hand hooked the shoulder of Shuster, then slid down and grabbed the jersey, thats classic PI, I did it often when I played, it's a tech every DB learns, as the DB said, I did it and hoped I wouldn't get caught.
the DB near stopped Shuster cold in that process, easily impeding his momentum
This just didn't happen. Schuster was running a whip route, which is slant in then cut back outside on a wheel. Schuster's route redirected him, not the DB.
The jersey pull, while to the letter is a hold did not appreciably affect his route. It certainly did not affect it enough where he could have caught up to the 5 yard "overthrow."
that view doesn't show it as well, the side view shows the DB's right hand pulling back on the shoulder, it spun Shuster back, then the DB right hand slide down and grabbed the jersey, the hit to the shoulder is classic DB 101, been taught since I was a kid, and rarely called, but is just as affective as a jersey grab, which usually is called, thats my opinion on this subject, we can agree to disagree.
The thing I hate about these calls on the defense is the automatic first down. DBs league wide get hammered by this rule all the time all season long.
It does suck, but I understand why. If a DB is going to get burned, pull hard, then it is only 5 yards when it may have been a much bigger gain.
for once we agree.
They could make it smarter, 5 yard no first down for incidental or lesser penalties. Then could either do a 10 or 15 yard automatic fist or spot foul is one is deemed egregious or intentional.
This just didn't happen. Schuster was running a whip route, which is slant in then cut back outside on a wheel. Schuster's route redirected him, not the DB.
The jersey pull, while to the letter is a hold did not appreciably affect his route. It certainly did not affect it enough where he could have caught up to the 5 yard "overthrow."
that view doesn't show it as well, the side view shows the DB's right hand pulling back on the shoulder, it spun Shuster back, then the DB right hand slide down and grabbed the jersey, the hit to the shoulder is classic DB 101, been taught since I was a kid, and rarely called, but is just as affective as a jersey grab, which usually is called, thats my opinion on this subject, we can agree to disagree.
Can you show us this supposed view?
Not sure if I can find it, your vid would show it better if it would have allowed some lead up to the play, it happens so fast from a back viewing angle it doesn't capture the hit and initial hold, mostly just a glancing blow and slide to the shirt grabbing.
we see the shoulder grab all the time in press coverage, refs rarely ever call that simply because it's covered when both shoulders of the players collide, but that is classic tech, been taught forever, and is even more affective then grabbing the jersey, that caught my eye more then the jersey grab actually, I did that stuff when I played 60 years ago.
that view doesn't show it as well, the side view shows the DB's right hand pulling back on the shoulder, it spun Shuster back, then the DB right hand slide down and grabbed the jersey, the hit to the shoulder is classic DB 101, been taught since I was a kid, and rarely called, but is just as affective as a jersey grab, which usually is called, thats my opinion on this subject, we can agree to disagree.
Can you show us this supposed view?
Not sure if I can find it, your vid would show it better if it would have allowed some lead up to the play, it happens so fast from a back viewing angle it doesn't capture the hit and initial hold, mostly just a glancing blow and slide to the shirt grabbing.
we see the shoulder grab all the time in press coverage, refs rarely ever call that simply because it's covered when both shoulders of the players collide, but that is classic tech, been taught forever, and is even more affective then grabbing the jersey, that caught my eye more then the jersey grab actually, I did that stuff when I played 60 years ago.
Can't find or doesn't exist?
The replay 23 provided was the replay that FOX showed. I don't recall a different angle.
By the rule it was a flag. But we see that not called 80% of the time in the playoffs.
By the above I would say he did not "support the grab," nor does he "want to allow interference."
The thing I hate about these calls on the defense is the automatic first down. DBs league wide get hammered by this rule all the time all season long.
The underlying fact is that type of thing was happening all game and they didn’t call it. To call it at the end of the game in an important situation only amplifies the refs influence on the game.
It does suck, but I understand why. If a DB is going to get burned, pull hard, then it is only 5 yards when it may have been a much bigger gain.
for once we agree.
They could make it smarter, 5 yard no first down for incidental or lesser penalties. Then could either do a 10 or 15 yard automatic fist or spot foul is one is deemed egregious or intentional.
true, I thought it had been that way, however I disagree, it's not incidental contact, it is a taught technique, again though the league wants the scoring and favors the offense in that way, one of the first things though a CB has to learn is to use that hand and shoulder to destroy the timing of a route, so it does impede the timing of the WR, and when the DB limits it to just a shoulder jam, we dont get a call, but when drops the hand and grabs the jersey it will get called every time a ref see's it.
so allowing it does give a advantage to the DB, the shoulder punch or hook is classic, specially so in press man, and it's easy to disguise because of close body contact, it was simply more fragrant and allowed years back, if allowed more now there would be no uptempo, short passing schemes imo.
By the above I would say he did not "support the grab," nor does he "want to allow interference."
The thing I hate about these calls on the defense is the automatic first down. DBs league wide get hammered by this rule all the time all season long.
The underlying fact is that type of thing was happening all game and they didn’t call it. To call it at the end of the game in an important situation only amplifies the refs influence on the game.
I’ve seen this argument a lot. And I’m curious, are there videos or specific places where this kind of penalty definitely happened and it went uncalled?
