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O-minded Head Coach and all the player improvement is on the other side of the ball, which is led by a mediocre (on his best day) coordinator. MLF is way worse than we realized.
The current roster isn't good enough to come anywhere close to cliniching a wild card spot.Drj820 wrote: ↑30 Oct 2023 09:56The roster is not good enough to win a super bowl.
The roster is plenty good enough to compete for a 7 seed.
The fact that the team is competing for a top 5 draft pick, is a lafleur thing.
Good coaching and good use of the players we do have, and good scheme and game management could absolutely navigate this team to a season we all find acceptable.
Lafleur has contributed none of that.
I'm sorry, but it's absolutely hilarious to believe Gutekunst has added too much talent when in fact he hasn't done enough to improve the roster.Labrev wrote: ↑30 Oct 2023 10:01If anything, I almost regret that Gute has added as much talent as he has, to a point where Barry's defective defensive gameplans look passable because there are lots of solid-to-good players and simply are no real "holes" on that side ala MD Jennings, Brad Jones, etc.
Rodgers was drafted in a completely different situation than Love though.
It's the later, I've explained the difference in these situations countless times, and there all smarter then I'am, they've all got degree's and everything
there all a bunch of obtuse'ers ehh, I don't think it was the same.Acrobat wrote: ↑31 Oct 2023 07:55I mean...no...the situations really weren't that different. Both teams coming off playoff seasons, aging QB that had hinted about retirement, good situation where they could allow the rookie QB to sit a couple years. The big difference is that the QB that was drafted in 2005 was the consensus #1 pick in the draft until he suddenly wasn't, and he fell to us. Jordan Love obviously wasn't ever the consensus #1 pick.
The pick in 2005 turned out to be brilliant and I think Gutey thought he could replicate that but unfortunately he ended up picking the wrong QB. He'll get another try in the 2024 draft.
Favre retirement talk didn't really start amping up until about a year before they drafted Rodgers, and it wasn't even to the point where anyone really thought he would retire. While Rodgers may not have been as blatant as Favre with his comments, he had hinted here and there that he knew his time was coming closer. Either way, the situations were the same because they were both aging at the time their eventual replacements were drafted. Semantics aside, the situations are pretty much a carbon copy of each other.Yoop wrote: ↑31 Oct 2023 08:25ehh, I don't think it was the same.Acrobat wrote: ↑31 Oct 2023 07:55I mean...no...the situations really weren't that different. Both teams coming off playoff seasons, aging QB that had hinted about retirement, good situation where they could allow the rookie QB to sit a couple years. The big difference is that the QB that was drafted in 2005 was the consensus #1 pick in the draft until he suddenly wasn't, and he fell to us. Jordan Love obviously wasn't ever the consensus #1 pick.
The pick in 2005 turned out to be brilliant and I think Gutey thought he could replicate that but unfortunately he ended up picking the wrong QB. He'll get another try in the 2024 draft.
Favre started talking retirement in Shermans 3rd season and every off season after that, once Rodgers started dropping Ted took notice, I agree it became a perfect situation to take him, no way anyone could trust Favre at that stage
Rodgers never even hinted at retirement when Guty reached up for Love, then we got that half baked story that he couldn't find a trade partner to take a receiver and that none where worth what he paid to get Love, never mind that several where and have proved it since.
Gute has no trouble finding trade partners for players he wants, and has done it I think every season, nah the price was to steep, he refused to pay it, instead traded up and reached for Rodgers replacement, all water over the bridge now, but imho these two situations where never the same, one simply happened, the other was a creation.
Rodgers fell down the board into our lapsAcrobat wrote: ↑31 Oct 2023 07:55I mean...no...the situations really weren't that different. Both teams coming off playoff seasons, aging QB that had hinted about retirement, good situation where they could allow the rookie QB to sit a couple years. The big difference is that the QB that was drafted in 2005 was the consensus #1 pick in the draft until he suddenly wasn't, and he fell to us. Jordan Love obviously wasn't ever the consensus #1 pick.
The pick in 2005 turned out to be brilliant and I think Gutey thought he could replicate that but unfortunately he ended up picking the wrong QB. He'll get another try in the 2024 draft.
Yep, I already pointed out those differences. But on the surface, the situations were the same. Aging QB's, a situation where their replacement could sit and learn for a year or two (or what ended up being 3 for both), and a roster that could compete (at time of drafting).Drj820 wrote: ↑31 Oct 2023 08:40Rodgers fell down the board into our lapsAcrobat wrote: ↑31 Oct 2023 07:55I mean...no...the situations really weren't that different. Both teams coming off playoff seasons, aging QB that had hinted about retirement, good situation where they could allow the rookie QB to sit a couple years. The big difference is that the QB that was drafted in 2005 was the consensus #1 pick in the draft until he suddenly wasn't, and he fell to us. Jordan Love obviously wasn't ever the consensus #1 pick.
The pick in 2005 turned out to be brilliant and I think Gutey thought he could replicate that but unfortunately he ended up picking the wrong QB. He'll get another try in the 2024 draft.
We moved UP to get Love, when everyone in the world thought we needed a WR or help for Rodgers.
Favre had already explicitly mentioned retirement. Rodgers said in 2019 he planned to play until he was 45.
Source: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/aaro ... -it-quits/
I remember it differently, imo he started talking both trade and retirement when Sherman was on the hot seat, and every year that followed, have you forgotten his he haw stuff every off season with the media, and lack of commitment till after the new league year started, or the articles of how that affected Teds draft preps, how true that all is can be debated.Acrobat wrote: ↑31 Oct 2023 08:47Yep, I already pointed out those differences. But on the surface, the situations were the same. Aging QB's, a situation where their replacement could sit and learn for a year or two (or what ended up being 3 for both), and a roster that could compete (at time of drafting).Drj820 wrote: ↑31 Oct 2023 08:40Rodgers fell down the board into our lapsAcrobat wrote: ↑31 Oct 2023 07:55I mean...no...the situations really weren't that different. Both teams coming off playoff seasons, aging QB that had hinted about retirement, good situation where they could allow the rookie QB to sit a couple years. The big difference is that the QB that was drafted in 2005 was the consensus #1 pick in the draft until he suddenly wasn't, and he fell to us. Jordan Love obviously wasn't ever the consensus #1 pick.
The pick in 2005 turned out to be brilliant and I think Gutey thought he could replicate that but unfortunately he ended up picking the wrong QB. He'll get another try in the 2024 draft.
We moved UP to get Love, when everyone in the world thought we needed a WR or help for Rodgers.
Favre had already explicitly mentioned retirement. Rodgers said in 2019 he planned to play until he was 45.
Source: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/aaro ... -it-quits/
My memory is just fine, and yes, I pointed out that Favre was more blatant in his comments, but the first season where he really appeared to be giving serious consideration to retirement was after the 2005 season, when Rodgers had already finished his first year as a Packer. The years before that were just little side comments like "I need to think about my future" but never anything serious to where anyone thought "oh we better find our replacement now", hence why a lot of people were really pissed that we didn't draft some help for Favre, specifically on defense because our 2004 defense was atrocious.Yoop wrote: ↑31 Oct 2023 09:11I remember it differently, imo he started talking both trade and retirement when Sherman was on the hot seat, and every year that followed, have you forgotten his he haw stuff every off season with the media, and lack of commitment till after the new league year started, or the articles of how that affected Teds draft preps, how true that all is can be debated.Acrobat wrote: ↑31 Oct 2023 08:47Yep, I already pointed out those differences. But on the surface, the situations were the same. Aging QB's, a situation where their replacement could sit and learn for a year or two (or what ended up being 3 for both), and a roster that could compete (at time of drafting).Drj820 wrote: ↑31 Oct 2023 08:40
Rodgers fell down the board into our laps
We moved UP to get Love, when everyone in the world thought we needed a WR or help for Rodgers.
Favre had already explicitly mentioned retirement. Rodgers said in 2019 he planned to play until he was 45.
Source: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/aaro ... -it-quits/
Rodgers never even hinted that he wanted to leave or retire, only that he wanted more FO accountability, and better team building, which he was right to ask for, Guty had no reason to trade up and reach for Love, the team needed a ready to play WR if not in the draft then UFA, and please CD don't try and sell me on the idea that Gute couldn't find a trade partner, gute has found a trade partner for every player he wanted since he's been here.
nothing about that draft for Love ever made any sense to me.
your wrong, and you have that right, good day to you.Acrobat wrote: ↑31 Oct 2023 09:23My memory is just fine, and yes, I pointed out that Favre was more blatant in his comments, but the first season where he really appeared to be giving serious consideration to retirement was after the 2005 season, when Rodgers had already finished his first year as a Packer. The years before that were just little side comments like "I need to think about my future" but never anything serious to where anyone thought "oh we better find our replacement now", hence why a lot of people were really pissed that we didn't draft some help for Favre, specifically on defense because our 2004 defense was atrocious.Yoop wrote: ↑31 Oct 2023 09:11I remember it differently, imo he started talking both trade and retirement when Sherman was on the hot seat, and every year that followed, have you forgotten his he haw stuff every off season with the media, and lack of commitment till after the new league year started, or the articles of how that affected Teds draft preps, how true that all is can be debated.Acrobat wrote: ↑31 Oct 2023 08:47
Yep, I already pointed out those differences. But on the surface, the situations were the same. Aging QB's, a situation where their replacement could sit and learn for a year or two (or what ended up being 3 for both), and a roster that could compete (at time of drafting).
Rodgers never even hinted that he wanted to leave or retire, only that he wanted more FO accountability, and better team building, which he was right to ask for, Guty had no reason to trade up and reach for Love, the team needed a ready to play WR if not in the draft then UFA, and please CD don't try and sell me on the idea that Gute couldn't find a trade partner, gute has found a trade partner for every player he wanted since he's been here.
nothing about that draft for Love ever made any sense to me.
Your wrong what? You didn't finish your sentence.Yoop wrote: ↑31 Oct 2023 09:34your wrong, and you have that right, good day to you.Acrobat wrote: ↑31 Oct 2023 09:23My memory is just fine, and yes, I pointed out that Favre was more blatant in his comments, but the first season where he really appeared to be giving serious consideration to retirement was after the 2005 season, when Rodgers had already finished his first year as a Packer. The years before that were just little side comments like "I need to think about my future" but never anything serious to where anyone thought "oh we better find our replacement now", hence why a lot of people were really pissed that we didn't draft some help for Favre, specifically on defense because our 2004 defense was atrocious.Yoop wrote: ↑31 Oct 2023 09:11
I remember it differently, imo he started talking both trade and retirement when Sherman was on the hot seat, and every year that followed, have you forgotten his he haw stuff every off season with the media, and lack of commitment till after the new league year started, or the articles of how that affected Teds draft preps, how true that all is can be debated.
Rodgers never even hinted that he wanted to leave or retire, only that he wanted more FO accountability, and better team building, which he was right to ask for, Guty had no reason to trade up and reach for Love, the team needed a ready to play WR if not in the draft then UFA, and please CD don't try and sell me on the idea that Gute couldn't find a trade partner, gute has found a trade partner for every player he wanted since he's been here.
nothing about that draft for Love ever made any sense to me.
busy, to many phone calls, had to end the conversation.Acrobat wrote: ↑31 Oct 2023 09:51Your wrong what? You didn't finish your sentence.Yoop wrote: ↑31 Oct 2023 09:34your wrong, and you have that right, good day to you.Acrobat wrote: ↑31 Oct 2023 09:23
My memory is just fine, and yes, I pointed out that Favre was more blatant in his comments, but the first season where he really appeared to be giving serious consideration to retirement was after the 2005 season, when Rodgers had already finished his first year as a Packer. The years before that were just little side comments like "I need to think about my future" but never anything serious to where anyone thought "oh we better find our replacement now", hence why a lot of people were really pissed that we didn't draft some help for Favre, specifically on defense because our 2004 defense was atrocious.
the first season where he really appeared to be giving serious consideration to retirement was after the 2005 season, when Rodgers had already finished his first year as a Packer.
Huh? Before you attempt to argue with a position that I did not take, please actually read my posts.Yoop wrote: ↑31 Oct 2023 10:10busy, to many phone calls, had to end the conversation.
your attempting to frame this as though Farve and Rodgers both threatened to leave or retire one year prior to both GM's picking a replacement QB, I disagree with that, Rodgers wanted FO accountability in 2017-18,no trade, or retirement, in fact just the opposite, he wanted to retire a Packer, and Favre had talked of retirement in 2002 on, and while you with the benefit of hindsight feel he was just grand standing, he still said it, Thompson also heard it, and the last couple years drug it out till the combine, Rodgers did none of this prior to the Love draft.
not the same at all to me.
sorry to mis read you, but your original point that these circumstances where the same is probably what I focused on, they where not, and that was what I tried to point out.Acrobat wrote: ↑31 Oct 2023 10:14Huh? Before you attempt to argue with a position that I did not take, please actually read my posts.Yoop wrote: ↑31 Oct 2023 10:10busy, to many phone calls, had to end the conversation.
your attempting to frame this as though Farve and Rodgers both threatened to leave or retire one year prior to both GM's picking a replacement QB, I disagree with that, Rodgers wanted FO accountability in 2017-18,no trade, or retirement, in fact just the opposite, he wanted to retire a Packer, and Favre had talked of retirement in 2002 on, and while you with the benefit of hindsight feel he was just grand standing, he still said it, Thompson also heard it, and the last couple years drug it out till the combine, Rodgers did none of this prior to the Love draft.
not the same at all to me.
I lifted the BLOCK that I have put on your posts to see if you actually contributed anything to the topic at hand, i.e. which one of the options and your reasons why, genuinely curious if you had a thought-provoking or at least unique take on it.