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Re: 2022 Draft Discussion
Posted: 22 Apr 2022 20:44
by Drj820
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑22 Apr 2022 20:24
Both Kenny and Davis could play anywhere on a DL, so long as they have the proper technique development and play within their assignments.
Jordan Davis is more athletic and explosive than Devonte Wyatt--not adjusted for size, but point blank. Same speed (top 2 times at the combine, 0.01 apart), better vertical (by 3 inches), better broad jump (by a full foot).
As long as he dedicates to the craft, he can do anything that any DL can do. He did what he was asked to do by UGA at an elite level. I anticipate he can do whatever most teams might ask of him at an elite level, given the time to hone the required techniques. There is zero pigeon-holing for Jordan Davis that I will accept. It's truly up to his dedication level that determines his outcomes, there are no capability deficiencies. This is a truly once in a lifetime athlete. I've never seen anything like it.
That said, Davis at 15 using 22 and 59 versus Travis Jones at 28 without needing to trade? Travis Jones gives you 85% of what you get from Davis at a much lower cost. So I could easily prefer that if I wasn't a UGA homer who enjoys Davis' goofy personality.
i like Davis too. If what you say is accurate i would expect him gone in the top ten.
Re: 2022 Draft Discussion
Posted: 22 Apr 2022 21:05
by YoHoChecko
Drj820 wrote: ↑22 Apr 2022 20:44
i like Davis too. If what you say is accurate i would expect him gone in the top ten.
From an Athletic article (paywall) during the past football season (October 27--long before the combine and whatnot)
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Also...
Jordan Davis has the same 10-yard split (1.63) and vertical jump (32 inches) as Aaron Donald.
Donald's 40-time was 0.09 faster; Davis' broad jump was 4 inches better.
He weighed in at the combine 66 pounds heavier than Donald did.
We're talking about a player bigger than TJ Slaton with the same athletic profile as Aaron Donald.
So yeah, I dunno; I feel like what I'm saying is accurate.
Re: 2022 Draft Discussion
Posted: 22 Apr 2022 21:20
by Drj820
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑22 Apr 2022 21:05
Drj820 wrote: ↑22 Apr 2022 20:44
i like Davis too. If what you say is accurate i would expect him gone in the top ten.
From an Athletic article (paywall) during the past football season (October 27--long before the combine and whatnot)
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image.png
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So yeah, I dunno; I feel like what I'm saying is accurate.
maybe you took my comments as a slight. They were not. I also am a UGA fan and watched lots of Davis. I love him too.
Im inquiring about why there is a disconnect between this once and a generation physical specimen and his "projected" draft position. I am seeing anywhere between 12 and 22 for Davis. Such a talent and man of high character would typically be in the conversation for top 5, and certainly top 10 in most years it seems.
Re: 2022 Draft Discussion
Posted: 22 Apr 2022 21:25
by YoHoChecko
Drj820 wrote: ↑22 Apr 2022 21:20
Im inquiring about why there is a disconnect between this once and a generation physical specimen and his "projected" draft position. I am seeing anywhere between 12 and 22 for Davis. Such a talent and man of high character would typically be in the conversation for top 5, and certainly top 10 in most years it seems.
Nah, I'm just on a Jordan Davis info rant and your participation let's me pretend it's a conversation, unlike BF's Toney posts
And I agree but I also have seen these guys fall before. I remember Wilfork falling to the Pats and people just being like "wait, how did we let that happen??"
I'm just sort of feeling blessed that at least the media's take on this draft is that we're just in some weird DT twilight zone where no one cares that the 2nd/3rd best DL (Travis Jones) is virtually identical to guys like Vita Vea and Derrick Brown who have gone top 15 before--but is projected to be borderline 1st rounder?
I'm scratching my head but hoping they're right. I never considered a first round DT until these two guys just kept seeming criminally undervalued by most consensus boards.
Re: 2022 Draft Discussion
Posted: 22 Apr 2022 21:34
by Drj820
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑22 Apr 2022 21:25
Drj820 wrote: ↑22 Apr 2022 21:20
Im inquiring about why there is a disconnect between this once and a generation physical specimen and his "projected" draft position. I am seeing anywhere between 12 and 22 for Davis. Such a talent and man of high character would typically be in the conversation for top 5, and certainly top 10 in most years it seems.
Nah, I'm just on a Jordan Davis info rant and your participation let's me pretend it's a conversation, unlike BF's Toney posts
And I agree but I also have seen these guys fall before. I remember Wilfork falling to the Pats and people just being like "wait, how did we let that happen??"
I'm just sort of feeling blessed that at least the media's take on this draft is that we're just in some weird DT twilight zone where no one cares that the 2nd/3rd best DL (Travis Jones) is virtually identical to guys like Vita Vea and Derrick Brown who have gone top 15 before--but is projected to be borderline 1st rounder?
I'm scratching my head but hoping they're right. I never considered a first round DT until these two guys just kept seeming criminally undervalued by most consensus boards.
I have said that I think Davis goes way before 22. I also said I would rather move up for WIlliams instead of move up for the DL position.
However, you have made me comfortable with doing what it takes to get Big Chungus also. I just REALLY dont see the org prioritizing that position so much when they already brought in Jarran Reed (the org will see that as doing alot) plus paying Kenny.
I think they felt like they didnt have to prioritize WR because they had Adams. And that same philosophy now carries over to DL. They feel they dont have to prioritize it because they have Kenny.
I hope I am right if that new focus on WR without Adams allows us to get Williams, I hope I am wrong and we go for Davis if the org still hates wide receivers.
Re: 2022 Draft Discussion
Posted: 23 Apr 2022 08:09
by Drj820
After further research I have concluded that YoHo very well may be exactly right on Jordan Davis! He may not be pigeon holed into any particular at all!
That said, hes not a consensus top ten pick because the tape shows him to be an elite 2 down run stuffer, and guys that go in the top 10 are every down guys.
Projection may say he can evolve into an every down guy. His measurables may scream he can become whatever he wants to become, and Yoho may be correct....
But i think the reason he is not top ten consensus is because of the tape he put forth at UGA.
I still think he goes way before 22, but i think this answer my question about why he is projected where he is, despite his unicorn measurables.
Re: 2022 Draft Discussion
Posted: 23 Apr 2022 08:22
by Yoop
I also doubt that Davis drops far out of the top 10 simply do to positional demand, most big boards I've seen have him in the top 15 range and only Jones and Wyatt sniffing first round value, so it's a putrid class of DT's, nothing like 2019 when 5 had first round grades and the 5th ( my guy Simmons) was gone at slot 19.
I think people are enamored with size, speed and athleticism with Davis, and they should be, but I read stuff like, over powers opponents with power not technique, and right away my concern is NFL lineman are so much better then what he faced in college, in that sense just being a great big athletic brute losses some significance to me, so many of these type guys bust because technique is what wins in trench war fare, size and power obviously is a great attribute as long as you know how to use it, knowing how to use the hands and feet to gain leverage works, and if you don't have that then you loss, so when draft people say stuff like, great athlete, but RAW, or he needs to be rotated often to save energy, or 2 down DT, a liability on passing downs, I listen to that stuff because we also need to improve interior pass rush.
I remember wanting Raji so bad over Crabtree, and we got him, 3 years later I was disappointed, Raji became who I expect Davis will become, a gassed out quitter 2/3rds through his rookie contract, if we should take him I hope like heck to eat the black bird
Re: 2022 Draft Discussion
Posted: 23 Apr 2022 08:32
by Drj820
Yoop wrote: ↑23 Apr 2022 08:22
I also doubt that Davis drops far out of the top 10 simply do to positional demand, most big boards I've seen have him in the top 15 range and only Jones and Wyatt sniffing first round value, so it's a putrid class of DT's, nothing like 2019 when 5 had first round grades and the 5th ( my guy Simmons) was gone at slot 19.
I think people are enamored with size, speed and athleticism with Davis, and they should be, but I read stuff like, over powers opponents with power not technique, and right away my concern is NFL lineman are so much better then what he faced in college, in that sense just being a great big athletic brute losses some significance to me, so many of these type guys bust because technique is what wins in trench war fare, size and power obviously is a great attribute as long as you know how to use it, knowing how to use the hands and feet to gain leverage works, and if you don't have that then you loss, so when draft people say stuff like, great athlete, but RAW, or he needs to be rotated often to save energy, or 2 down DT, a liability on passing downs, I listen to that stuff because we also need to improve interior pass rush.
I remember wanting Raji so bad over Crabtree, and we got him, 3 years later I was disappointed, Raji became who I expect Davis will become, a gassed out quitter 2/3rds through his rookie contract, if we should take him I hope like heck to eat the black bird
hey nothing wrong with your comments just wanted to point out a couple of things...
1) sure the NFL OLmen will be better than what Davis faced...but he came from the SEC. Not like he played at North Dakota State or even in the ACC. He saw a ton of future NFL linemen throughout his career, and did well against them.
2) Raji may have lacked longevity but BJ Raji is a super bowl champ with the Packers. If Davis has a short career that includes a SB with the Packers, Il take it!
Re: 2022 Draft Discussion
Posted: 23 Apr 2022 18:39
by RingoCStarrQB
This might just be the dumbest thing I have ever posted. Please don't shoot the messenger ........... I just copied and pasted it from a Mel Kiper Packers draft write up.
ESPN NFL Draft expert Mel Kiper revealed his second mock draft on Tuesday morning. The Green Bay Packers hold the 28th overall selection in the first round, and the team could opt to go in a number of different directions. In Kiper’s latest mock draft, he has the Packers selecting Alabama wide receiver Jameson Williams with the 28th overall pick.
Williams was likely to be an early-to-mid first round selection before tearing his ACL in the National Championship game. But Kiper still believes adding a talented wideout like Williams would be a great move for the Packers.
“The last time the Packers took a wide receiver in Round One? It was Javon Walker all the way back in 2002. So why not another wideout 20 years later, one who could make Aaron Rodgers’ life easier (assuming he stays),” Kiper said. “Williams was my top-ranked receiver before he tore his ACL in the national title game in January, which means he might not be ready to play until late in the 2022 season. For a team expected to play well into January, though, he could be a great addition. Williams averaged 19.9 yards on his 79 catches last season and had 15 touchdowns. He’s super explosive. I love this fit both for team and player.”
Williams began his collegiate career at Ohio State, but caught just 15 passes for 266 yards and three touchdowns through ten games there. Ahead of the season, Williams transferred to Alabama and immediately turned into a star in the Crimson Tide offense.
Re: 2022 Draft Discussion
Posted: 24 Apr 2022 07:56
by paco
Oof, McGinn's draft series is doing a number on me. Didn't realize some of the questions about the top DL guys.
And I don't typically agree with or like Mcginn.
Re: 2022 Draft Discussion
Posted: 24 Apr 2022 08:43
by YoHoChecko
paco wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022 07:56
Oof, McGinn's draft series is doing a number on me. Didn't realize some of the questions about the top DL guys.
And I don't typically agree with or like Mcginn.
Where is his stuff now? He keeps moving around. Is he still independent? Tell us more about these DL questions
Re: 2022 Draft Discussion
Posted: 24 Apr 2022 09:01
by paco
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022 08:43
paco wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022 07:56
Oof, McGinn's draft series is doing a number on me. Didn't realize some of the questions about the top DL guys.
And I don't typically agree with or like Mcginn.
Where is his stuff now? He keeps moving around. Is he still independent? Tell us more about these DL questions
Golongtd.com with Ty Dunne.
Jordan Davis, of course the questions are if he's more than just a run stuffer and is weight a problem.
Wyatt has the old domestic violence issues, even though dropped. But several opinions that he's a screw up, but talented. 8 on wonderlic.
Logan Hall, raw but can he win inside?
Travis Jones, under achiever, doesn't play hard, wonderlic 8. Some question if plugger or will be able to get to qb.
Leal, super athletic but not tough enough. Under achiever, wonderlic 7.
Winfrey, disaster off the field(not criminally) Always late or no-show. Disruptive, makes excuses. He'll need good vet influence.
But opinions are all over the place. Theme of the draft. No one quite with the complete package that screams 1st rounder.
Re: 2022 Draft Discussion
Posted: 24 Apr 2022 09:08
by BF004
I always want more high potential DL, but this would be as good a year any to not draft anyone high if no one we really like
Re: 2022 Draft Discussion
Posted: 24 Apr 2022 09:17
by Drj820
So we got some real dumb dumbs in the class this year lol
Re: 2022 Draft Discussion
Posted: 24 Apr 2022 09:25
by paco
Logan Hall growing on me a lot more. Been getting 1st round buzz. Would prefer in the 2nd.
I'm mostly narrowing myself down to DB in the first.
Re: 2022 Draft Discussion
Posted: 24 Apr 2022 10:28
by Labrev
Hall is also a guy I like. Can he win inside? I actually prefer to move him to DE/EDGE anyway, but he can move inside in rush packages.
And yeah lol, I'm out on single-digit Wonderlic Andys.
Re: 2022 Draft Discussion
Posted: 24 Apr 2022 10:37
by Drj820
If a linebacker calls out "Rover" or "Lucy" to indicate to the DL the strong side is the "Right side" or "Left side" would a guy who got 7 on the wonderlic even know which way is left or right?
Maybe the LB would have to come up and tap him directly on the left or right butt cheek so the player would know which way to slant. Either way, seems like too much special attention would have to be given to make sure the vegetable could make it on the bus, remember to pack all his things, and know which way is left or right.
Re: 2022 Draft Discussion
Posted: 24 Apr 2022 10:43
by RingoCStarrQB
paco wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022 09:01
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022 08:43
paco wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022 07:56
Oof, McGinn's draft series is doing a number on me. Didn't realize some of the questions about the top DL guys.
And I don't typically agree with or like Mcginn.
Where is his stuff now? He keeps moving around. Is he still independent? Tell us more about these DL questions
Golongtd.com with Ty Dunne.
Jordan Davis, of course the questions are if he's more than just a run stuffer and is weight a problem.
Wyatt has the old domestic violence issues, even though dropped. But several opinions that he's a screw up, but talented. 8 on wonderlic.
Logan Hall, raw but can he win inside?
Travis Jones, under achiever, doesn't play hard, wonderlic 8. Some question if plugger or will be able to get to qb.
Leal, super athletic but not tough enough. Under achiever, wonderlic 7.
Winfrey, disaster off the field(not criminally) Always late or no-show. Disruptive, makes excuses. He'll need good vet influence.
But opinions are all over the place. Theme of the draft. No one quite with the complete package that screams 1st rounder.
Add this to the list: Jameson Williams, Torn ACL in January, 2022.
Re: 2022 Draft Discussion
Posted: 24 Apr 2022 11:29
by YoHoChecko
Huh. Travis Jones as an underachiever??
Didn’t know that about Winfrey but it does help explain the gap between his tape and his Senior Bowl performance.
I feel pretty strongly about Davis and Jones being top tier guys. And I like Hall a lot in the second (he was in my first mock for us).
But aside from those guys, I’d prefer to wait on the position and get a guy to develop later. This chat confirms that preference.
Thanks, [mention]paco[/mention]
Re: 2022 Draft Discussion
Posted: 24 Apr 2022 11:30
by Yoop
RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022 10:43
paco wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022 09:01
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑24 Apr 2022 08:43
Where is his stuff now? He keeps moving around. Is he still independent? Tell us more about these DL questions
Golongtd.com with Ty Dunne.
Jordan Davis, of course the questions are if he's more than just a run stuffer and is weight a problem.
Wyatt has the old domestic violence issues, even though dropped. But several opinions that he's a screw up, but talented. 8 on wonderlic.
Logan Hall, raw but can he win inside?
Travis Jones, under achiever, doesn't play hard, wonderlic 8. Some question if plugger or will be able to get to qb.
Leal, super athletic but not tough enough. Under achiever, wonderlic 7.
Winfrey, disaster off the field(not criminally) Always late or no-show. Disruptive, makes excuses. He'll need good vet influence.
But opinions are all over the place. Theme of the draft. No one quite with the complete package that screams 1st rounder.
Add this to the list: Jameson Williams, Torn ACL in January, 2022.
Is this a rumor, or a very well known fact?
some mocksters have dropped him to mid to late second round, as punishment I suppose for busting his knee, so there is a certain amount of insanity flouting about