this is a month or so old, but Butkowski makes some sense with these comments, Lafleur simply didn't like the way Petine called the defense, so he brought in Barry because he could tell Barry how to call the defense, according to this Lafleur was the one responsible for single high coverage when Stokes gave up that game losing TD in the PO game 2020
We have had a lot of failures on our offensive drafts the past few years too.
Lot of WR fails. TE fails. OL fails since 2015.
2022 and 2023 were just really strong drafts.
true, some mid rounders misses, and some from the last 2 drafts may not pan out as well, but we've had sooo many more misses on defense, and GPG I believe if ya look you'll find that to be true with other teams, imo defense is just a harder fit to pick then offense, jmo
If you're a Bears fan, they will tell you defense is a lot easier to find than offense.
All depends on how the world has shaped your viewpoint.
I think your leaving out that the Bears specialize in making production so difficult on offense there forced to have quality defense, I'd bet they miss on just as many players on defense as we do, it was the same with the Ravens until they found a QB.
theres a reason the league has twice as many good offenses as it does defenses.
true, some mid rounders misses, and some from the last 2 drafts may not pan out as well, but we've had sooo many more misses on defense, and GPG I believe if ya look you'll find that to be true with other teams, imo defense is just a harder fit to pick then offense, jmo
If you're a Bears fan, they will tell you defense is a lot easier to find than offense.
All depends on how the world has shaped your viewpoint.
I think your leaving out that the Bears specialize in making production so difficult on offense there forced to have quality defense, I'd bet they miss on just as many players on defense as we do, it was the same with the Ravens until they found a QB.
theres a reason the league has twice as many good offenses as it does defenses.
Yeah, it’s definitely for sure the bears think building a decent defense is easier.
true, some mid rounders misses, and some from the last 2 drafts may not pan out as well, but we've had sooo many more misses on defense, and GPG I believe if ya look you'll find that to be true with other teams, imo defense is just a harder fit to pick then offense, jmo
If you're a Bears fan, they will tell you defense is a lot easier to find than offense.
All depends on how the world has shaped your viewpoint.
I think your leaving out that the Bears specialize in making production so difficult on offense there forced to have quality defense, I'd bet they miss on just as many players on defense as we do, it was the same with the Ravens until they found a QB.
theres a reason the league has twice as many good offenses as it does defenses.
Last I checked the league has:
5 top 5 offenses
5 top 5 defenses
It's been that way every year. It's crazy.
Re: 2023 Packers Defense Expectations?
Posted: 21 Dec 2023 19:50
by Trudge
Edit: First line - Rashan Gary
Second line - Lukas Van Ness
If you're a Bears fan, they will tell you defense is a lot easier to find than offense.
All depends on how the world has shaped your viewpoint.
I think your leaving out that the Bears specialize in making production so difficult on offense there forced to have quality defense, I'd bet they miss on just as many players on defense as we do, it was the same with the Ravens until they found a QB.
theres a reason the league has twice as many good offenses as it does defenses.
Last I checked the league has:
5 top 5 offenses
5 top 5 defenses
It's been that way every year. It's crazy.
“Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true.” - Homer Simpson
If you're a Bears fan, they will tell you defense is a lot easier to find than offense.
All depends on how the world has shaped your viewpoint.
I think your leaving out that the Bears specialize in making production so difficult on offense there forced to have quality defense, I'd bet they miss on just as many players on defense as we do, it was the same with the Ravens until they found a QB.
theres a reason the league has twice as many good offenses as it does defenses.
Last I checked the league has:
5 top 5 offenses
5 top 5 defenses
It's been that way every year. It's crazy.
well ya, every year theirs a top 5 for every category, right? scoring is down this year, however just looking at points made and given up it is pretty even, however I came up with 7 or 8 I consider pretty good in each category.
Man, I would hope points scored and points given up would be pretty close. In my estimation, they are equal actually.
well right now there are 7 teams with over 41 TD's, and 7 teams that have given up 18 or less TD's, these obviously are the top 7 to 10 teams in the league, and for and against don't come no where near being equal did you even bother to open that fox link?
Man, I would hope points scored and points given up would be pretty close. In my estimation, they are equal actually.
well right now there are 7 teams with over 41 TD's, and 7 teams that have given up 18 or less TD's, these obviously are the top 7 to 10 teams in the league, and for and against don't come no where near being equal did you even bother to open that fox link?
Points scored in the league equals points given up, think about it for a second.
Man, I would hope points scored and points given up would be pretty close. In my estimation, they are equal actually.
well right now there are 7 teams with over 41 TD's, and 7 teams that have given up 18 or less TD's, these obviously are the top 7 to 10 teams in the league, and for and against don't come no where near being equal did you even bother to open that fox link?
Points scored in the league equals points given up, think about it for a second.
come on, riddles
heres the offense production link, if ya want to brows
well right now there are 7 teams with over 41 TD's, and 7 teams that have given up 18 or less TD's, these obviously are the top 7 to 10 teams in the league, and for and against don't come no where near being equal did you even bother to open that fox link?
Points scored in the league equals points given up, think about it for a second.
come on, riddles
heres the offense production link, if ya want to brows
Man, I would hope points scored and points given up would be pretty close. In my estimation, they are equal actually.
Re: 2023 Packers Defense Expectations?
Posted: 21 Dec 2023 21:54
by go pak go
Yes yoop.
The league's rules do make it easier for offense to produce because that = more highlights.
But when going against other teams, you have just as many "good offenses" as "good defenses" when you rank them.
To be a top 10 offense...means there are 10 offenses who fit that category. Exact same thing for defense. You can't have more top ten offenses than defenses. It's literally impossible. But what it can mean is the bar can be either higher or lower from a production standpoint TO BE a top 10 offense.
That's why you need to rank against the rest of the league rather than other metrics. Other metrics such as overall scoring shows where the league is as a whole, but you still really simply care about how your team defense/offense does vs the rest of the league.
Re: 2023 Packers Defense Expectations?
Posted: 22 Dec 2023 05:37
by Yoop
Offense VS Defense: Which is harder to build in todays NFL
Matthew Emmons-USA TODAY Sports
The game has changed. Some will say for the worst but the casual fan and the TV ratings will disagree. Offense and defense are not the same. Spread sets dominate the passing game and zone blocking schemes the running game. Linebackers fly around the field at 235 lbs and nickel packages are base defenses. But which side of the ball is more important to field a championship team?
Is It offense?
In today's game, shootouts are common. Teams can try to field the best possible offense to contend in these shootouts are thought by some to be inevitable due to of the numerous rule changes. The only way to field an offense capable of putting up big numbers is to find either a quarterback that can carry an offense in the mold of Phillip Rivers or Drew Brees or to have a combination of scheme and skill position players that allow the starting quarterback more room for error like say, Andy Dalton or Ryan Fitzpatrick. This prior season's Jets and Bengals found ways to be consistently explosive despite not fielding the most talented of signal callers
Good skill position players are not hard to find. In fact, the 2014 wide receiver draft class could go down as the best ever. There is a role for players like for example, Tavon Austin, who presents an unorthodox skill-set. Schemes role and offensive coordinators philosophies are diverse enough to cohere explosive enough offenses. Defenses do not have that luxury.
Is it Defense
One only needs to take a look around the league to see that there is not a defense considered "elite" that does not feature mercurial talents at every level. The Seattle Seahawks, Denver Broncos and Minnesota Vikings are three of the at best seven defenses that can be considered as part of the upper echelon of the league. An elite defense cannot be manufactured.
The scheme can enhance abilities and if manned by the best of coordinators, keep talentless defenses out of the gutter. Vic Fangio and the bears serve proof of that. However, talent deprived defenses will get shredded by even the average quarterbacks. Schemes are being simplified to amplify playing speed. The Jaguars and Seahawks way of playing defense, with matchup zones, run-and-chase linebackers and one-gap concepts coming to the forefront. The Carolina Panthers and Denver Broncos are also familiar with all three of the named features.
To play defense at a high level, the stars have to align. Pieces need to come together at all levels, including from the sidelines where the defensive coordinator makes the difference between an average or an elite defense. I do not think it is a particularly close debate. However, let your opinion seen below.
heres another opinion that offense trumps defense , a good offense can win with lousy defense, we basically proved that since 2011, but a good defense wont win as much with a poor offense.
Do me a favor, add up all the points scored, then add up all the points given up. What do you get?
Points scored x2
Re: 2023 Packers Defense Expectations?
Posted: 24 Dec 2023 16:50
by YoHoChecko
I'm just going to say that while I want Joe Barry fired and think he hasn't been good enough all season even during the win streak when he got some good overall game outcomes....
... last week was the right time, or after the season. And right now? On Christmas Eve, is not the time. I don't care that it's a business and that can be cruel. You don't give someone the press conference endorsement for the end-of-the-season and then fire him on Christmas/Christmas Eve a week later.
Re: 2023 Packers Defense Expectations?
Posted: 24 Dec 2023 16:54
by LombardiTime
We all know that Barry has to go, even MLF, and that there will be another new Defensive Coordinator in 2024.
But I'd like Murphy or somebody in the Packer Organization add a "Consultant" in the building next season to take a look at the defensive operation.
In 2022, Flores in Pittsburgh and Fangio in Philly served similar type roles.
The decade plus insanity on defense has got to stop somehow, some way, and maybe having someone looking over MLF's shoulder would help.
