Packers Huddle

Labrev wrote: ↑

15 Nov 2023 14:03

Yoop wrote: ↑

15 Nov 2023 13:51

no GM in the league would have peddled Rodgers, specially when the GM thought he could also retain Adams, last year was the end of the window, no one thought 2021 was, the plan simply fell apart.

But once it was apparent that he was wrong about keeping Adams, there was still time to deal Rodgers, and an interested party (DEN).

I doubt that, and Guty just stuck to the plan, brought in Watkins

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

15 Nov 2023 11:58

One thing that is interesting about Love's 10 interceptions is that they have all come when we were behind. Even more so, that nearly all of them have come when it was necessary to take extra risks to force the ball.

Four have come when we were within a score in the last five minutes of the game (Raiders, Broncos, Steelers twice)
Four have come when we were two or three scores behind and playing catch-up (Saints, Lions twice, Vikings)
Two were when we were a score behind and plenty of time left (Raiders twice).

Which leads me to believe that he is pretty good at taking care of the ball when there is no urgency but not as good as he might be when it comes to forcing the issue. Whatever that might mean for the future!

(Incidentally, that special teams extra point failure cost us big time last week. Love might not have thrown the first interception if we'd been 3 points down, and certainly wouldn't have thrown the second.)

APB wrote: ↑

14 Nov 2023 19:38

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

13 Nov 2023 10:55

CJ Stroud is out here throwing to absolute bums. No real #1 WR. His offensive line isn’t that great. He’s leading that team because he’s a good QB.

You bringing up Stroud in an attempt to disparage Love is about as relevant as me bringing up Bryce Young to pump him up. Both arguments are just plain idiotic.

Whilst Love has the better rating at 80 to 75, Love has more games under a 80 rating than Young.

dsr wrote: ↑

15 Nov 2023 18:38

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

15 Nov 2023 11:58

One thing that is interesting about Love's 10 interceptions is that they have all come when we were behind. Even more so, that nearly all of them have come when it was necessary to take extra risks to force the ball.

Four have come when we were within a score in the last five minutes of the game (Raiders, Broncos, Steelers twice)
Four have come when we were two or three scores behind and playing catch-up (Saints, Lions twice, Vikings)
Two were when we were a score behind and plenty of time left (Raiders twice).

Which leads me to believe that he is pretty good at taking care of the ball when there is no urgency but not as good as he might be when it comes to forcing the issue. Whatever that might mean for the future!

(Incidentally, that special teams extra point failure cost us big time last week. Love might not have thrown the first interception if we'd been 3 points down, and certainly wouldn't have thrown the second.)

We are always going to be behind as we can't score points in the 1st half. 2nd last to the Giants.

I agree with others that it’s unfair to compare Love to Arod.

Rodgers will go down as the most accurate passer NFL history. 4 time MVP. SB winner. I rate him #12-#15 all time.

Comparing Love to Rodgers isn’t an honest measure.

But comparing Stroud to Love is a good measure and there is no doubt at this time Stroud is more accurate. However, he has seasoned receivers. They may not be superstars but they know what they’re doing.

Also, I think that Stroud will probably be more accurate during his career. Stroud was also my top QB in the last draft.

Just because Stroud will be a more accurate passer, doesn’t mean that Love can’t be a great QB.

Considering the position that Gutey has put him in, I think Love has done well and handled the adversity as a leader. Because the problems are not just with Love. It’s been a sh!t show with all theses young receivers.

And frankly I expect better than this from the Packers organization. This is a new low. What a way to screw with Love’s confidence. In a way Gutey has kind of screwed himself too. He may need 2 years to evaluate Love.

I believe as the receivers mature Love’s play will improve. It’s already started to happen.

Sullivan makes it pretty clear with his QB evals, Love is doing more stuff right , then wrong, course he also points out that our LT trucked back to the QB doesn't help, the growth from Love is that he's adapting to it, is better at feeling it, I like that, also think his accuracy is improving, just not at the rate we'd hoped for yet, but where seeing some progress

why post Sullivan in two Diff. threads mistake, or making sure everyone see's it

Labrev wrote: ↑

15 Nov 2023 14:03

Yoop wrote: ↑

15 Nov 2023 13:51

no GM in the league would have peddled Rodgers, specially when the GM thought he could also retain Adams, last year was the end of the window, no one thought 2021 was, the plan simply fell apart.

But once it was apparent that he was wrong about keeping Adams, there was still time to deal Rodgers, and an interested party (DEN).

How interested was Denver? I can't recall...

Foosball wrote: ↑

15 Nov 2023 18:52

I agree with others that it’s unfair to compare Love to Arod.

Rodgers will go down as the most accurate passer NFL history. 4 time MVP. SB winner. I rate him #12-#15 all time.

Comparing Love to Rodgers isn’t an honest measure.

But comparing Stroud to Love is a good measure and there is no doubt at this time Stroud is more accurate. However, he has seasoned receivers. They may not be superstars but they know what they’re doing.

Also, I think that Stroud will probably be more accurate during his career. Stroud was also my top QB in the last draft.

Just because Stroud will be a more accurate passer, doesn’t mean that Love can’t be a great QB.

Considering the position that Gutey has put him in, I think Love has done well and handled the adversity as a leader. Because the problems are not just with Love. It’s been a sh!t show with all theses young receivers.

And frankly I expect better than this from the Packers organization. This is a new low. What a way to screw with Love’s confidence. In a way Gutey has kind of screwed himself too. He may need 2 years to evaluate Love.

I believe as the receivers mature Love’s play will improve. It’s already started to happen.

Stroud was also a more highly regarded prospect coming into the draft and he probably should've been the top pick last spring. I think he's gonna be a superstar. I look at Love as hopefully an above average starting QB. If this turns out to be true and he has enough talent around him we can win with him. I hope we can find out by the end of the season.

Pugger wrote: ↑

16 Nov 2023 12:08

How interested was Denver? I can't recall...

In exchange for Russell Wilson (and a fourth), they gave Seattle 2022 1st, 2nd, 5th, and a 2023 1st and 2nd, and they later admitted that trading for Rodgers was Plan A until he decided to return to Green Bay, leading them to go to Wilson as Plan B.

Seattle used those picks to respectively draft Charles Cross (starting LT), Boye Mafe (starting EDGE), Tyreke Smith (LB who has not seen the field due to injury), Devon Witherspoon (starting CB and current DPOY favorite), and Derick Hall (EDGE, has not made an impact so far but fwiw I liked him as a prospect).

Labrev wrote: ↑

16 Nov 2023 12:23

n exchange for Russell Wilson (and a fourth), they gave Seattle 2022 1st, 2nd, 5th, and a 2023 1st and 2nd, and they later admitted that trading for Rodgers was Plan A until he decided to return to Green Bay, leading them to go to Wilson as Plan B.

can we know for sure that that was there plan, Labrev they can say anything they want, saying they wanted Rodgers obviously gives high hopes to the fan base, then when Rodgers ends up staying here, they can say we tried.

Guty said he wanted to trade up for a receiver the year he took Love, who's going to challenge that comment, theirs no way to prove he didn't, GM's say whatever will appease the fans and media.

we kept Rodgers because the plan was to keep Rodgers all along.

Yoop wrote: ↑

16 Nov 2023 12:37

can we know for sure that that was there plan, Labrev they can say anything they want, saying they wanted Rodgers obviously gives high hopes to the fan base, then when Rodgers ends up staying here, they can say we tried.

There is no cognizable reason to doubt their claim, and there are several reasons to believe their claim (e.g. hiring Hackett as HC, Rodgers's rumored interest, Denver's massive need at QB coupled with the fact that Rodgers came off an MVP QB season, "coachspeak" would dictate that they should claim Wilson was the guy they always wanted).

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

16 Nov 2023 08:05

*Video*

Man, just about every week O'Sullivan has a play or two (at 5:24 and 25:51) where Watson is running a sloppy route.

Still plenty of footwork to clean up for Love, particularly when he has to "hitch". Last play was really bad footwork and timing.

On that last play, O'Sullivan thinks it's a TD if the throw is right at the break, on either side, but Watson has a DB watching him closely. The other side to Wicks (?) looks more promising, IMO.

___

At 14:36, Jones was gone if that LB hadn't tripped him. I believe we had to settle for a FG there. D'oh!

That last play was so bad. Low chance of making it happen anyway but Love needed to at the very least give a guy a chance. He didn’t do that.

If that’s Rodgers he probably tries breaking the pocket and extending and hoping something breaks down in the secondary.

I think Love maybe should have tried to rip one on the seam and hope momentum and drive makes it into the end zone.

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

16 Nov 2023 13:18

That last play was so bad. Low chance of making it happen anyway but Love needed to at the very least give a guy a chance. He didn’t do that.

If that’s Rodgers he probably tries breaking the pocket and extending and hoping something breaks down in the secondary.

I think Love maybe should have tried to rip one on the seam and hope momentum and drive makes it into the end zone.

that or ya have to use some sort blocking set up as ya would get out of stacked receivers, preferably trips, that way ya have two blockers and a receiver that can run in behind them, that play smelled doom from start to finish.

Labrev wrote: ↑

16 Nov 2023 12:53

Yoop wrote: ↑

16 Nov 2023 12:37

can we know for sure that that was there plan, Labrev they can say anything they want, saying they wanted Rodgers obviously gives high hopes to the fan base, then when Rodgers ends up staying here, they can say we tried.

There is no cognizable reason to doubt their claim, and there are several reasons to believe their claim (e.g. hiring Hackett as HC, Rodgers's rumored interest, Denver's massive need at QB coupled with the fact that Rodgers came off an MVP QB season, "coachspeak" would dictate that they should claim Wilson was the guy they always wanted).

again Rodgers was never going to get traded, Guty went in, not quite all in, but enough that Rodgers wasn't going anywhere, Guty simply failed to stock the receiver room earlier, the OL went threw some adjustments, and the receivers dropped as many passes as they caught.

but again, I have trouble believing anything coaches and GM's say, to many lies and half truth statements over the years, maybe when I was your age I believed them more, probably did, no more though, I rarely even listen to pressers, that stuff Lafleur was spouting I've heard variations of that stuff a 1000 times.

Yoop wrote: ↑

16 Nov 2023 13:45

again Rodgers was never going to get traded, Guty went in, not quite all in, but enough that Rodgers wasn't going anywhere, Guty simply failed to stock the receiver room earlier, the OL went threw some adjustments, and the receivers dropped as many passes as they caught.

but again, I have trouble believing anything coaches and GM's say, to many lies and half truth statements over the years, maybe when I was your age I believed them more, probably did, no more though, I rarely even listen to pressers, that stuff Lafleur was spouting I've heard variations of that stuff a 1000 times.

It's really not that difficult to judge what's probably truth and what's probably false. You simply look around at other information that is relevant to the topic and see if those things support or go against the claim. In the case of Denver's interest in Rodgers, several things support their claim and nothing really contradicts it.

And calling their claim "coachspeak" makes no sense. Coachspeak is intended to be diplomatic and unoffensive. The diplomatic thing is to say Wilson is the guy you wanted all along, because it pumps up your new QB and tells fans that things are going to plan.

Yoop wrote: ↑

16 Nov 2023 13:37

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

16 Nov 2023 13:18

That last play was so bad. Low chance of making it happen anyway but Love needed to at the very least give a guy a chance. He didn’t do that.

If that’s Rodgers he probably tries breaking the pocket and extending and hoping something breaks down in the secondary.

I think Love maybe should have tried to rip one on the seam and hope momentum and drive makes it into the end zone.

that or ya have to use some sort blocking set up as ya would get out of stacked receivers, preferably trips, that way ya have two blockers and a receiver that can run in behind them, that play smelled doom from start to finish.

Run behind them? The Steelers had four men on the defensive line and seven on the goal line. There was no room behind them.

I was watching the Bills-Jets game and listening to them talk about the firing of OC Ken Dorsey and I got curious about Dorsey's career--specifically, was he in the bills' building for the Josh Allen glow up when he went from inaccurate rookie to accurate and rising star 3rd-year player, which launched Allen and Brian Daboll's career launches?

And it turned out, yes. Dorsey became QB coach in 2019, Allen's second year. He improved from completing 52% as a rookie to 58% as a second year player. And In year two of Dorsey's tenure, Allen made an even bigger leap. Dorsey remained QB coach but also added passing game coordinator to his duties in his 3rd year with the team, and then became OC when Daboll departed.

So that's WHY I was looking. Coaching curiosities.

But look what I found!

Below is Jordan Love's first year as a starter so far stacked atop Josh Allen's sophomore season. (I frequently like to compare Love's first year as a starter to high picks who started as rookies in their second year because I think, based on vibes, a 1st-year starter who sat and waited versus a second-year starter who was rushed onto the field feel like a good comparison point.

Earlier in this very thread, I made several such comparisons.

Anyway, here.
I'm not even entirely sure what some of those rate stats are--various different types of analytics. But dang that is a similar stat line

EDIT: Love's stat line does not yet include today's game, so nudge the numbers up a bit

Also, I do want to admit that as I have watched Love's career unfold with great hope and always (and continuing to) grant the benefit of the doubt, I AMa bit concerned we're talking ourselves into QB no-man's-land akin to a Kirk Cousins where the long-term starter is "good enough" but not "great enough," ya know? I don't want to broadcast my hopes without admitting my doubts.