Rodgers Watch 2023

[Pckfn23]

there may be something to it, and then again, there may not be.

This is exactly my point.
IF you're going to make that unsupported comment AND you're going to give it credibility...then it needs to be stronger than "maybe"
"Maybe" doesn't mean &%$@ if you're going to print it. Maybe I'm the King of England. Maybe not.

Sorry if I misread it, but it read as if you had dismissed it out of hand as having no credibility what so ever.

I think he did kind of support it though, albeit with anecdotal evidence. Any anecdotal evidence to suggest you are the King of England??

[Yoop]

another attempt to claim Rodgers lost it, never mind the lack of experience at WR, or poor pass pro which forced him to evade, Lafleur has dialed back the pitch point of our routes, which should have helped Rodgers get rid of the ball quicker ( when receivers get open on schedule his release is near quickest in the league), again the receiver situation last season ( not getting open, dropped passes, wrong routes)

The observations made about Rodgers here relate to things that exist independently of the players around him.

His deep ball accuracy or passes not having enough air under them is not a WR or OL thing, it's an age/arm thing.

His legs not being able to evade defenders DL/LBs he could once evade is not a supporting cast thing, it's an athleticism thing.


By the way, nobody is claiming he is washed/done here, or even that he is not still "good," just that he is not Elite.

they are not independent, I bet you saw MVS run a GOOD route on that miss from Mahomes, when as I've been saying he runs poor routes, it is the WRs job to get to the pitch point, when you see a ball 3 or 4 feet away from the receiver 90% ( guess 23) of the time the receiver failed, you and others blame the QB.

yes he may have lost some deep strength, again, Lafleur and Vrable have shorten'd up the routes, we throw far less deep routes, and Rodgers can still thread the needle as we saw the year prior with Adams, again this stuff is a chemistry issue with Receivers, and far less a decline from Rodgers.

ya also have played down the thumb issue so as to just saw Rodgers is over the hill, when you know damn well the thumb is key to throwing a accurate football.

ya don't like Rodgers, I don't care for him much either, but he is still the best option then a un proven Love.

[Pckfn23]

I am not sure if he is known for working on his body as Tom Brady was, for example.

I think you can find plenty of articles and quotes talking about how AR works on his body all year round and has a full routine to get himself physically ready for the season. He also trains in the offseason at ProActive Performance with Bakh, Clark, Love ( and Matthews ) and others in Westlake Village. Not sure about the TB12 avocado toast, but there's plenty of info on Rodgers training/nutrition to keep his body & mind sharp over the course of his 18 yr career. No chance you can last that long in this league if you're slacking.

I am not saying he isn't training, but there is a difference in doing the minimum and living it to stay at the top of your game past the time father time usually wins. Again, not saying he isn't doing any of this, but it is food for thought and makes me, at least, wonder if he has been more about mental "health" than physical health.

Kinda weird to fire shots are Mr. Avocado Toast when his offseason nutrition and fitness has been a documented obsession for most in the health/wellness/fitness media.

[BSA]

Any anecdotal evidence to suggest you are the King of England??

None

I've commented on the idea that DCs might be able to influence Rodgers by showing him something pre-snap and then switching it up post- snap.
Its a chess match and sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. But I'm not sure how you'd study for it since very few of the other QBs that DC faced are similar to AR in terms of his pre-snap reads, getting defenses to declare and having an encyclopedia of options to beat it.
He knows that they know that he knows they know and they know he knows it too. And that's why sometimes, AR /MLF outsmart themselves when instead they should just line up and take what they want... instead of relying on all the cerebral stuff. But that's not a preparation thing imo

So I don't think we can use that as supporting evidence that Rodgers isn't putting in the work.
That allegation just seems so out of character for him.

[Crazylegs Starks]

Putting the article link here so I don't have to quote the Tweet:
https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/news/sco ... k-to-earth

Gee, where have I heard this before?

“Where the biggest question mark comes in is how he should play and how he wants to play. They don’t marry,” the scout said. “He should play in a system that gets the ball out quick – honestly, what (Packers coach Matt) LaFleur wanted to do, but Aaron likes to do something different. If he goes to a different place and just wants to drop back and throw the ball all the time, it’s going to be rough.”

You're preaching to the choir, anonymous scout.

[Labrev]

they are not independent, I bet you saw MVS run a GOOD route on that miss from Mahomes, when as I've been saying he runs poor routes, it is the WRs job to get to the pitch point, when you see a ball 3 or 4 feet away from the receiver 90% ( guess 23) of the time the receiver failed, you and others blame the QB.

wtf, MVS??? Man, you must have been dying to say that to me.

But no, a pass not having enough air to go where it needs to go is not an issue that is affected by a WR's route-running.

You might argue that the WR did not run to the exact correct spot, but it's not actually that difficult to tell apart miscommunication from the QB underthrowing. Like, pretty much everybody who saw the MVS pass knows that the ball didn't get to its target because the receiver did not run it right, not because the pass lacked zip.

Oh man, the MVS example was actually quite useful to me! Thanks.

ya also have played down the thumb issue so as to just saw Rodgers is over the hill, when you know damn well the thumb is key to throwing a accurate football.

The thumb can only be used as an excuse if you actually admit that his individual play (i.e. throws) were actually poor; an injury only matters if it affects the player's play. As long as you keep insisting that Rodgers's throws were fine, which is still your contention to my knowledge, then his thumb cannot reasonably also be seen/used as an issue.

Regardless, the thumb was not an issue ALL year. He was off the injury report for it in Week 18 iirc vs. DET, and in that game, a lot of his long passes sailed on him. His INT to double-covered Watson on his last pass of the game was *ugly*...

Which leads to another, compounding issue: the weather was bad that game, but bad weather at home is par for the course as the QB1 for Green Bay. Do we really want to rely on the arm of a 40 year old in *this* stadium?

I don't care for him much.

I know, that's what makes it so sad.

[BSA]

Kinda weird to fire shots are Mr. Avocado Toast when his offseason nutrition and fitness has been a documented obsession for most in the health/wellness/fitness media.

I've had a lifetime of training in clinical science and there's a big difference between marketing claims and medical claims. There is no clinical evidence to support anything TB12 does - Why ? Because it costs an immense amount of money to conduct those rigorous trials and the results are far from certain. TB12 health may work, it may not. So we're back to maybe again.

"Many online reviews by those who’ve tried the diet are positive, but critics point out that the diet is unnecessarily complex, unsustainable in the long term, and not supported by science."

BOTTOM LINE: The Tom Brady Diet, or TB12 Method, is a whole-foods-based diet that may aid weight loss, protect against diseases, and boost your sports performance and recovery. Still, it’s very restrictive and many principles are not based on sound science making it difficult to maintain long term."

The FDA regulates what medical claims you can make and if you don't have the evidence to back it up, you can't make those claims
So they simply change the words. Instead of claiming it does something, you insert the word "may" - and then you can make any claim you like.

" Following the TB12 diet may allow you to become the King of England"
.

[BSA]

Gee, where have I heard this before?

That's a legitimate complaint. And its been an issue with AR and MLF for some time now. And its why many fans are ready to move on to Love because they'd like to see what MLF offense really looks like. Same issue with the young WRs- they learn MLF playbook, but Rodgers wants to run a hybrid of MLF and AR - except the AR playbook isn't on their laptops. Big Dog and Cobb know it, hence his love for those guys

[Pckfn23]

Any anecdotal evidence to suggest you are the King of England??

None

DAMN! I was hoping for a fun story about tea time and corgis.

I've commented on the idea that DCs might be able to influence Rodgers by showing him something pre-snap and then switching it up post- snap.
Its a chess match and sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. But I'm not sure how you'd study for it since very few of the other QBs that DC faced are similar to AR in terms of his pre-snap reads, getting defenses to declare and having an encyclopedia of options to beat it.
He knows that they know that he knows they know and they know he knows it too. And that's why sometimes, AR /MLF outsmart themselves when instead they should just line up and take what they want... instead of relying on all the cerebral stuff. But that's not a preparation thing imo

So I don't think we can use that as supporting evidence that Rodgers isn't putting in the work.
That allegation just seems so out of character for him.

It's also about tendencies and what a defenses and offenses can and can't do. It would seem to me, though, that it's a bit to coincidental that this is happening over the last year. Had the play not matched the comments, ie... 2020 or 2021, I would agree the Scout is completely full of &%$@, but now... As for nothing to study, I would say the top 5 QBs in the league, at least, can read a defense like Rodgers can. So there may be something to study in that sense. At the same time it wouldn't take much for Rodgers just to say, "I've seen it all so no need to watch extra tape..." Not saying he is saying that.

Agree with the outsmarting piece. Sometimes you just gotta go get it!

[Labrev]

ya don't like Rodgers, I don't care for him much either,

I don't think you realize how little this aspect of it actually matters to me. My hot takes are 100% on him the player, 0% on him the person. I actually usually agree with his worldly takes, such as the Biden regime being a fake White House.

I "hate" Rodgers the way I hated McCarthy. Mac's bumbling incomeptence is not bothersome to me now that it's ruining a different team. I actually find it endearing now.

When it was coming at our expense, though, yes, I became a hater of his. People didn't like it. I get that. Thing is, I don't like the team being run into the ground.

I will like Rodgers fine as he throws into double-coverage in the playoffs for a different team. It will no longer be my problem. And I will probably regret it as much as I regret us moving on from Mac (I don't).

[Labrev]

New betting odds on Derek Carr's landing spot are out.

According to recent odds that were released by Bookies.com, Tampa Bay holds the top odds to land Carr at +250 which is an implied probability of 28.6%. Two other NFC South teams - Carolina (+300) and New Orleans (+400) - sit right on the Buccaneers' heels. Other teams to make the list include the New York Jets (+625), Indianapolis (+1000), and Houston (+1400).

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/bu ... f97e78e620

[Pckfn23]

Kinda weird to fire shots are Mr. Avocado Toast when his offseason nutrition and fitness has been a documented obsession for most in the health/wellness/fitness media.

I've had a lifetime of training in clinical science and there's a big difference between marketing claims and medical claims. There is no clinical evidence to support anything TB12 does - Why ? Because it costs an immense amount of money to conduct those rigorous trials and the results are far from certain. TB12 health may work, it may not. So we're back to maybe again.

"Many online reviews by those who’ve tried the diet are positive, but critics point out that the diet is unnecessarily complex, unsustainable in the long term, and not supported by science."

BOTTOM LINE: The Tom Brady Diet, or TB12 Method, is a whole-foods-based diet that may aid weight loss, protect against diseases, and boost your sports performance and recovery. Still, it’s very restrictive and many principles are not based on sound science making it difficult to maintain long term."

The FDA regulates what medical claims you can make and if you don't have the evidence to back it up, you can't make those claims
So they simply change the words. Instead of claiming it does something, you insert the word "may" - and then you can make any claim you like.

" Following the TB12 diet may allow you to become the King of England"
.

Oh, your going full weeds on this one, I didn't make a claim that what he does is or is not scientifically proven, just that it is well documented from too many sources that his physical health is a top priority for him in the offseason.

Can a person marry into the succession?

[Yoop]

they are not independent, I bet you saw MVS run a GOOD route on that miss from Mahomes, when as I've been saying he runs poor routes, it is the WRs job to get to the pitch point, when you see a ball 3 or 4 feet away from the receiver 90% ( guess 23) of the time the receiver failed, you and others blame the QB.

wtf, MVS??? Man, you must have been dying to say that to me.

But no, a pass not having enough air to go where it needs to go is not an issue that is affected by a WR's route-running.

You might argue that the WR did not run to the exact correct spot, but it's not actually that difficult to tell apart miscommunication from the QB underthrowing. Like, pretty much everybody who saw the MVS pass knows that the ball didn't get to its target because the receiver did not run it right, not because the pass lacked zip.

Oh man, the MVS example was actually quite useful to me! Thanks.

ya also have played down the thumb issue so as to just saw Rodgers is over the hill, when you know damn well the thumb is key to throwing a accurate football.

The thumb can only be used as an excuse if you actually admit that his individual play (i.e. throws) were actually poor; an injury only matters if it affects the player's play. As long as you keep insisting that Rodgers's throws were fine, which is still your contention to my knowledge, then his thumb cannot reasonably also be seen/used as an issue.

Regardless, the thumb was not an issue ALL year. He was off the injury report for it in Week 18 iirc vs. DET, and in that game, a lot of his long passes sailed on him. His INT to double-covered Watson on his last pass of the game was *ugly*...

Which leads to another, compounding issue: the weather was bad that game, but bad weather at home is par for the course as the QB1 for Green Bay. Do we really want to rely on the arm of a 40 year old in *this* stadium?

I don't care for him much.

I know, that's what makes it so sad.

ya can't go off a medical report to claim a thumb wasn't a issue, I played 3 games once with a broken toe, players play with injury all the time.

I used mVS because he is a great example of what many think is a inaccurate pass when actually it's a poorly run route, and when the ball is in the air the receiver can't get to it, I heard Rodgers blamed for it often last season, same with receivers falling to catch un perfectly thrown but catchable passes, no way I'am blaming the QB for that stuff, it's up to the receiver to catch anything near him.

you've expected perfection from Rodgers, yet don't for the receivers, and don't bring up his contract or any of that stuff about him needing to be better because of it, thats just stupid ploy to strengthen your already feeble position.

my only dog in this fight, or care is winning NOW, the future has always held to many unknowns to do any more then make basic plans, often even those don't pan out, probably why I've never put a lot of thought into a rebuild, ya simply just retool as you go along, If we decide to keep Rodgers the circumstances with Love will work themselves out, never try to cross a bridge till ya get to it so to speak.

[Crazylegs Starks]

OT

...
Can a person marry into the succession?

Yes, but they'd only be a consort, although they could become a powerful regent under the right circumstances

[Yoop]

ya don't like Rodgers, I don't care for him much either,

I don't think you realize how little this aspect of it actually matters to me. My hot takes are 100% on him the player, 0% on him the person. I actually usually agree with his worldly takes, such as the Biden regime being a fake White House.

I "hate" Rodgers the way I hated McCarthy. Mac's bumbling incomeptence is not bothersome to me now that it's ruining a different team. I actually find it endearing now.

When it was coming at our expense, though, yes, I became a hater of his. People didn't like it. I get that. Thing is, I don't like the team being run into the ground.

I will like Rodgers fine as he throws into double-coverage in the playoffs for a different team. It will no longer be my problem. And I will probably regret it as much as I regret us moving on from Mac (I don't).

McCarthy was and still is a great coach, your confused just as are a lot of fans who think McCarthy didn't want to do this or that, he didn't want to not run the football, which people thought, he simply didn't want to run if it didn't provide good down and distance, which it usually didn't, when Ted drafted Lacy McCarthy ran the ball more.
\
again if you have a Aaron Rodgers, know that mistakes often decide outcomes of games, and your GM has the where with all to provide skill position receivers then you throw deep every opertunity you get, and McCarthy dialed that stuff up to perfection

your problem Labrev as with many fans, you actually think you know more then these coaches, I admit to that guilt at times myself, till I come down off whatever cloud I'am flouting on, it's fine to question some things, but our questions just create more questions, we rarely come up with any concrete answers, now do we.

I don't know if Rodgers political comments are any more then his attracting clicks and comments, foolish and stupid, just as are yours about Bidens white house. and this isn't the place for those comments anyway.

[Labrev]

ya can't go off a medical report to claim a thumb wasn't a issue, I played 3 games once with a broken toe, players play with injury all the time.

So were Rodgers's passes actually poorer as a result of the injury or no?

I used mVS because he is a great example of what many think is a inaccurate pass when actually it's a poorly run route,

Well everybody actually thinks it was a poorly run route rather than an underthrown pass, so it was actually a terrible example (for your argument).

This only seems to exist in reverse, where everybody sees a pass as obviously underthrown while you are the only person who believes it was someone else's fault.

you've expected perfection from Rodgers, yet don't for the receivers,

This is such an embarrassingly inaccurate summation of my position. I never expect "perfection" in any sense. You just get too hung up over the overarching conclusion indicting Rodgers that you get agitated and throw all nuance out the window.

nooooooo DON'T CRITICIZE MAH BAYYY BAYYYYY!!

don't bring up his contract or any of that stuff about him needing to be better because of it, thats just stupid ploy to strengthen your already feeble position.

I can and I will. The whole "elite QB on an elite contract"--model only works if the QB is playing dominant enough football to cover up for other roster weaknesses, as Pat Mahomes just did. KC won it with like 11 rookies forced into meaningful action season. It's all because they had Pat truly playing like the MVP.

my only dog in this fight, or care is winning NOW, the future has always held to many unknowns to do any more then make basic plans, often even those don't pan out, probably why I've never put a lot of thought into a rebuild, ya simply just retool as you go along,

You don't have to be able to see the future that it's way easier to retool for the future if you have more resources to make moves rather than fewer.

[Labrev]

your problem Labrev as with many fans, you actually think you know more then these coaches, I admit to that guilt at times myself, till I come down off whatever cloud I'am flouting on, it's fine to question some things

Actually, I usually defer to the coaches... until/unless they discredit their judgment very clearly.

Which the MLF regime has done w/r/t personnel decisions. Lane Taylor over Elgton Jenkins, Turner at LT over Nijman against SF, Newman and Hanson over Tom, Dean Lowry over TJ Slaton, Amari Rodgers over Nixon, the list goes on.

And after the Eagles game we can safely include thumbless Rodgers over Jordan Love, which doesn't make me very inclined to trust that Rodgers is the better option even this year, though who's better this year is not the important part of the calculus anyway.

[Yoop]

This only seems to exist in reverse, where everybody sees a pass as obviously underthrown while you are the only person who believes it was someone else's fault.

I've not discussed under thrown passes once, however don't you suppose that could be a issue with the thumb? come on now turn the light bulb on, that should be obvious, with at least some of the under thrown passes anyway.

all these guys make a ton of money, all need to and are expected to play up to that price tag, and everyone fails at times to do so, and for a variety of reasons, when you don't take account for the reason and simply say well we don't want a guy who doesn't then ya might as well back up a bus and load up the whole team, did Clark earn his money last year? hell no, what about Alexander? highest paid CB in the league, well he didn't either, your ragging on Rodgers because you want change, just say that, ya don't have to tear down Rodgers to do so.

[Scott4Pack]

ya don't like Rodgers, I don't care for him much either, but he is still the best option then a un proven Love.

You are correct! However, the convo goes on to beg the question WHY is Rodgers still the best option over Love?

There’ll likely be several valid answers. Mine is this. Whatever Rodgers might have lost in running or passing ability, he makes up for in savvy. He can read defenses like very few QBs can. That’s it. And as much as I do think that’s valid, I also hold the mantra that it’s better to let go of a player too early than too late. Rodgers might have two or three years yet of it being “too early.” But we won’t have Love for that long. And it’s unlikely that we’ll have a proven and very good (let alone elite) QB besides him. The Love variable must be worked in to this equation.

So, we need to roll the dice now with Love or we need to risk letting Rodgers play til he has no more gas in the tank (and might actually be performing less than expected). Which choice should be roll with?

[BF004]

So we are currently slated to be 16M over the 2024 cap as of right now with players we have, with Aaron on his current contract (which he won't play under if he stays). Tack on $20 for Jordan's 5th year option.

I believe, if we happen to trade Aaron this year though, we do save $40 million on the '24 cap, this putting us roughly ~~24M under the cap. (~4M under with Jordan 5th year option).

Certainly makes that easier to bring back a Adrian Amos (who won't hurt the cap this year, but will add to 2024 if back) and an AJ Dillon. And probably extend Jordan, I threw out a 3 year $60 million contract is very logical that mathematically makes sense for both sides.