From Lambeau to Lombardi, Holmgren, McCarthy and LaFleur and from Starr to Favre, Rodgers and now Jordan Love we’re talking Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers football. This Packers Forum is the place to talk NFL football and everything Packers. So, pull up a keyboard, make yourself at home and let’s talk some Packers football.
again, last season 14 teams carried more more dead cap money then we did, this season so far we have 15.5 mil dead cap money, along with another Doz teams.
I get that many here want to trade the guy and start the Love era, I have my doubts that the FO is as enthusiastic is you all are, we'll see.
You might be right that they aren't as anxious to move on, but I don't understand why so many people are so much more willing to fail with what they know than to potentially fail with what they don't.
We just went 8-9 and missed the playoffs without moving on. Why would it be so much worse to move on and at least see what's next? There is no greater or lesser chance of success in the future. The future is unknowable. But people have such a hard time accepting that the future is unknowable that they rely on the past to bring them comfort as they move into it. Rodgers' past doesn't make him more likely to win a championship with the Packers than anyone else. His future is unknown and unknowable. Moving onto Love isn't more unknown than not moving on. Embrace change; it's constant.
the first thought to come to mind was the movie romancing the stone, when Kate Turner is crossing that bridge, it collapses and she has to grab the vine and swing across, thats the picture that pops in my head, it's hard to throw away the security that Rodgers brings to the table.
he's said more then once that he is willing to redo the contract given last year no matter where he plays, and I still contend that the Rodgers we saw last year is a anomaly and not even close to the ability he still has given a more consistent supporting cast.
why people seem to discount the lack of impact receiver talent in PO losses, or the mistakes make by others, and just keep saying Rodgers can't win the big games is mind boggling to me, the 2020 loss is at the fore front for me, roughly 5 key dropped passes, one in the EZ another likely would have been, my point is even a great QB can't over come outside issues if they number to many, and that is a good example of the situation concerning the whole of those teams and why we lost, not saying Rodgers was perfect, but he did enough that we should have won a few of em with a better support.
If we move on I'am OK with that, but I can see the reasons why Gute and the group are hesitant to
why people seem to discount the lack of impact receiver talent in PO losses, or the mistakes make by others, and just keep saying Rodgers can't win the big games is mind boggling to me, the 2020 loss is at the fore front for me, roughly 5 key dropped passes, one in the EZ another likely would have been, my point is even a great QB can't over come outside issues if they number to many, and that is a good example of the situation concerning the whole of those teams and why we lost, not saying Rodgers was perfect, but he did enough that we should have won a few of em with a better support.
If we move on I'am OK with that, but I can see the reasons why Gute and the group are hesitant to
I think the largest message you refuse to listen to isn't that we don't see the mistakes the rest of the team made, but more about if those teams weren't enough to be below the minimum mistake threshold...any future team with Rodgers certainly won't be enough.
Absolutely we have Christian Watson and he is a playmaker. But he isn't anywhere near the level Adams was as a WR1. You then have Doubs as your number two who you yourself ragged on all year for dropping balls.
That's why those who want to move on are ready to move on. Rodgers decline is certainly a variable yes. But the other variable is the Packers don't have the team to win now like we did in 2020 and 2021.
It's hard to do, but being honest with who we are is the best thing for the Packers at this point. Otherwise we will just keep digging this hole and that is why our rivals like the Bears bloggers are starting to post about "I hope the Packers keep Rodgers"
I was listening to Ty Dunne this morning. He chatted about how the main differences between Rodgers and Love right now would be 1) using legs to escape the pressure, and 2) still having the arm to make all the throws. At this point, they say that love is better in both areas.
Come on down and try some of our delicious green chili! Best in the world!
Rodgers said he spent "months" planning his darkness retreat. Couple this with multiple reports that Rodgers does not put the work in, and the fact that the Lions D (worst in the league) made him play one of his worst games.
Rodgers does NOT give us the best chance to win.
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
But that’s not the decision. The decision is when is the time to start “the future”, and with no chance to win a title with Rodgers because he’s a choke artist…I say that time is now.
Also, I know we win because of 12. I really really really wanna see what gutey and Lafleur can do without him. They seem scared to see themselves, but I really wanna see!
why people seem to discount the lack of impact receiver talent in PO losses, or the mistakes make by others, and just keep saying Rodgers can't win the big games is mind boggling to me, the 2020 loss is at the fore front for me, roughly 5 key dropped passes, one in the EZ another likely would have been, my point is even a great QB can't over come outside issues if they number to many, and that is a good example of the situation concerning the whole of those teams and why we lost, not saying Rodgers was perfect, but he did enough that we should have won a few of em with a better support.
If we move on I'am OK with that, but I can see the reasons why Gute and the group are hesitant to
I think the largest message you refuse to listen to isn't that we don't see the mistakes the rest of the team made, but more about if those teams weren't enough to be below the minimum mistake threshold...any future team with Rodgers certainly won't be enough.
Absolutely we have Christian Watson and he is a playmaker. But he isn't anywhere near the level Adams was as a WR1. You then have Doubs as your number two who you yourself ragged on all year for dropping balls.
That's why those who want to move on are ready to move on. Rodgers decline is certainly a variable yes. But the other variable is the Packers don't have the team to win now like we did in 2020 and 2021.
It's hard to do, but being honest with who we are is the best thing for the Packers at this point. Otherwise we will just keep digging this hole and that is why our rivals like the Bears bloggers are starting to post about "I hope the Packers keep Rodgers"
I hear your point, mine is that I think your down grading the talent level, we have what appears to be a very good OL group even if we trade Bakh, two still very good RB's, and a excellent prospect with Watson, Doubs will get the drops figured out, and we may draft or bring in another, maybe a receiving TE.
Defense?????? who can say with Barry, we'll draft a few, again, if there is anything written on stone tablets it's that the Packer will use the first pick on defense
again, it's not a sure thing Love will be good, people act like he will be, like it's automatic, it's not, and why I say the FO may not be so enthusiastic, but we'll see.
Simply the issue in the argument is that one can not logically say Rodgers was so middling in 2022 because the talent around him was so bad AND say he will be back to top of the league form in 2023 because the talent around him will be so much better. If talent around him was the reason for his decline then that same reason exists in 2023 as that same talent around him does not look to get exceptionally better and we aren't in a position to add from free agency. Thus you move on from Aaron Rodgers because the ultimate goal is not realistically attainable within his viable playing time with the team.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Rodgers is at this point in his career uncoachable. He runs the clock down to zero so that he can gather information pre-snap; he is using that information to decide which target to throw to, instead of reading and reacting. It only works (at a middle of the league QB level) because of his abilities pre-snap. This is the reason why film study shows Rodgers missing all kinds of open targets. He's already decided pre-snap where he is going with the ball.
The injury isn't an excuse; it is part of the problem. More frequent injuries and longer healing times are the norm for older athletes, not the exception.
I find it highly doubtful that Rodgers gets better at age 40 and 41 then he was at 38 and 39. He is who he is, and who he is is a middling level QB on a losing team.
Simply the issue in the argument is that one can not logically say Rodgers was so middling in 2022 because the talent around him was so bad AND say he will be back to top of the league form in 2023 because the talent around him will be so much better. If talent around him was the reason for his decline then that same reason exists in 2023 as that same talent around him does not look to get exceptionally better and we aren't in a position to add from free agency. Thus you move on from Aaron Rodgers because the ultimate goal is not realistically attainable within his viable playing time with the team.
so you disregard the lack of experience at WR, the inconsistent OL blocking and expect that to be the same this year, I don't, and I doubt the coaches or Guty do either.
Simply the issue in the argument is that one can not logically say Rodgers was so middling in 2022 because the talent around him was so bad AND say he will be back to top of the league form in 2023 because the talent around him will be so much better. If talent around him was the reason for his decline then that same reason exists in 2023 as that same talent around him does not look to get exceptionally better and we aren't in a position to add from free agency. Thus you move on from Aaron Rodgers because the ultimate goal is not realistically attainable within his viable playing time with the team.
so you disregard the lack of experience at WR, the inconsistent OL blocking and expect that to be the same this year, I don't, and I doubt the coaches or Guty do either.
I don't disregard either of those things. I don't expect the WRs to improve enough to turn Rodgers from a middling QB to a top one. I don't see the OL blocking inconsistencies as a consistent thing all year. It improved in the 2nd half of the season, but did not result in appreciable improvement in Rodgers' play. I expect both positions to improve in 2023, but not so much that it would all of a sudden lead to Rodgers improving enough that a Super Bowl is on the horizon.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Rodgers is at this point in his career uncoachable. He runs the clock down to zero so that he can gather information pre-snap; he is using that information to decide which target to throw to, instead of reading and reacting. It only works (at a middle of the league QB level) because of his abilities pre-snap. This is the reason why film study shows Rodgers missing all kinds of open targets. He's already decided pre-snap where he is going with the ball.
The injury isn't an excuse; it is part of the problem. More frequent injuries and longer healing times are the norm for older athletes, not the exception.
I find it highly doubtful that Rodgers gets better at age 40 and 41 then he was at 38 and 39. He is who he is, and who he is is a middling level QB on a losing team.
The main problem is getting plays in.
Packers break the huddle later than other teams.
Guy had a broken thumb on throwing hand and didn't miss a game.
Simply the issue in the argument is that one can not logically say Rodgers was so middling in 2022 because the talent around him was so bad AND say he will be back to top of the league form in 2023 because the talent around him will be so much better. If talent around him was the reason for his decline then that same reason exists in 2023 as that same talent around him does not look to get exceptionally better and we aren't in a position to add from free agency. Thus you move on from Aaron Rodgers because the ultimate goal is not realistically attainable within his viable playing time with the team.
so you disregard the lack of experience at WR, the inconsistent OL blocking and expect that to be the same this year, I don't, and I doubt the coaches or Guty do either.
I don't disregard either of those things. I don't expect the WRs to improve enough to turn Rodgers from a middling QB to a top one. I don't see the OL blocking inconsistencies as a consistent thing all year. It improved in the 2nd half of the season, but did not result in appreciable improvement in Rodgers' play. I expect both positions to improve in 2023, but not so much that it would all of a sudden lead to Rodgers improving enough that a Super Bowl is on the horizon.
there is no way to know that, again, do you see a SB ever with Love? not just this year, but ever? If Rodgers stays here then obviously the FO had doubts to.
so you disregard the lack of experience at WR, the inconsistent OL blocking and expect that to be the same this year, I don't, and I doubt the coaches or Guty do either.
I don't disregard either of those things. I don't expect the WRs to improve enough to turn Rodgers from a middling QB to a top one. I don't see the OL blocking inconsistencies as a consistent thing all year. It improved in the 2nd half of the season, but did not result in appreciable improvement in Rodgers' play. I expect both positions to improve in 2023, but not so much that it would all of a sudden lead to Rodgers improving enough that a Super Bowl is on the horizon.
there is no way to know that, again, do you see a SB ever with Love? not just this year, but ever? If Rodgers stays here then obviously the FO had doubts to.
There is no way to know any of this, for sure. It is the future. It is unknowable. We have some clues though.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Simply the issue in the argument is that one can not logically say Rodgers was so middling in 2022 because the talent around him was so bad AND say he will be back to top of the league form in 2023 because the talent around him will be so much better. If talent around him was the reason for his decline then that same reason exists in 2023 as that same talent around him does not look to get exceptionally better and we aren't in a position to add from free agency. Thus you move on from Aaron Rodgers because the ultimate goal is not realistically attainable within his viable playing time with the team.
The talent issue is real. But there’s another factor that impacted 2022 quite a lot and that is injuries. One question we could ask is, if the GBP stayed relatively healthy all of 2023, would they cumulatively, and Aaron Rodgers specifically, play significantly better?
I don’t dismiss Rodgers one bit. I think he is still a very good QB (not elite). Even so, take the very good one that might have 1 or 2 or 3 years left or take the guy who has done everything you could hope for prior to becoming a starter. I’m thinking you take the Love guy, unless you have a definite plan in place for acquiring a new starter after Rodgers finally leaves.
Come on down and try some of our delicious green chili! Best in the world!
The only real injuries I consider material variables for 2022 were the injuries to Bak and Jenkins, Watson and then Doubs and most importantly Rashan Gary.
There was a noticeable improvement in Oline play when Bak and Jekins settled in. Watson was a true playmaker at WR and Rashan Gary is an absolute force.
But we lost when Gary was playing and our healthy Oline got destroyed week 18. I just dont' see a whole lot of correlation of injury to success for 2022. Every team has injuries. I don't think we can blame our failure largely on injuries for 2022.
I have to say, the last couple of weeks this whole thing is getting heated no matter where you go. It's Rodgers/Favre 2.0 in the making.
Frankly, it's pure poo. I am a fan of the GB Packers. I sat in that stadium before the big renovation and watched Lynn Dickey, Randy Wright, and the Majik man play. I cheered when we were getting our butts handed to us as loud as I did when we won the last 2 Super Bowls. I really don't care who stays and goes each season because inevitably the NFL is a business and as such players will only be here a certain time and be gone. It's why I don't buy Jersey's.
If some of these "fans" who are so hung up on one player or players and say they'll not support us or get ugly when someone talks about a player not returning.... then in all honesty you were never a Packer fan to start with. No I in TEAM
As for Rodgers, I say again he brings most of it upon himself and no I don't feel sorry for the circus he's caught up in. If he's under center I'll cheer for him, if it's Love then that's our QB and we do the same.
