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How are we back to the old argument here? It seemed like everyone was talking about here we are now and what to do next and suddenly it's a point-by-point "does the board hate Rodgers" debate?
Rodgers is out of his darkness. He'll likely chill for a few days and digest. He'll talk to the team. We'll know before free agency (3 weeks!) what his intentions are, and we'll have tons of arguments based on that.
But, like, we all sort of know this debate. Now we're not even debating about Rodgers, but debating about what the debates about Rodgers have been about?
starts around this post I think, and it snow balled from there couple pages back, the tearing down of Rodgers in order to campaign stronger for Love just gets to me, sorry for my part in this.
I am perplexed as to how some are already all over "our next future HOF QB" Jordan Love's nuts, however.
Who is "all over "our next future HOF QB" Jordan Love's nuts?"
If you are in favor of trading Rodgers and seeing what Love has, that is one thing. There is an active thread called "Love, our next HOF QB." Based on his body of work thus far, I think that is grossly premature, to put it mildly.
I am perplexed as to how some are already all over "our next future HOF QB" Jordan Love's nuts, however.
Who is "all over "our next future HOF QB" Jordan Love's nuts?"
If you are in favor of trading Rodgers and seeing what Love has, that is one thing. There is an active thread called "Love, our next HOF QB." Based on his body of work thus far, I think that is grossly premature, to put it mildly.
And there is hardly anything serious in that thread.
It's just songs with the word "Love" in it. I think my post of saying he looked good in his 8 pass attempts is the most serious thing relating to Love and his play in that thread.
I think what gets lost in a lot of these conversations/arguments is that a lot of the posters who prefer to move on this offseason aren't arguing that Rodgers isn't likely the better option in 2023. The undisputable reality is that Rodgers will not be our QB in 2029, while it is possible that Jordan Love is. I favor moving on because I don't think we have the ammo to win it all this year, and I would prefer to get something for Rodgers and see what we have in Love.
I think what gets lost in a lot of these conversations/arguments is that a lot of the posters who prefer to move on this offseason aren't arguing that Rodgers isn't likely the better option in 2023. The undisputable reality is that Rodgers will not be our QB in 2029, while it is possible that Jordan Love is. I favor moving on because I don't think we have the ammo to win it all this year, and I would prefer to get something for Rodgers and see what we have in Love.
At this point, being a Rodgerz haterz is just a reflection of actually accurately and factually knowing Rodgers as a player, not an emotional pathology like the opposite stance is.
Rodgers fanboys will just insist whatever is convenient to their mindless worship of the guy. You can say Rodgers wears #12 and they will attack you and say he wears #999 but you are trying to short-change him with a much smaller number. It's absurd.
>"Rodgers is a pocket passer!" No, his career highlight reel revolves around off-script scramble drill plays "Rodgers has not had many injuries over his career!" ... takes just totally out-of-touch with reality.
Per PFF, Rodgers' average time to throw of 2.53-seconds is the seventh-fastest rate this season. That, of course, makes it a nearly impossible task to go deep when the ball is out that quickly.Sep 27, 2022
I think what gets lost in a lot of these conversations/arguments is that a lot of the posters who prefer to move on this offseason aren't arguing that Rodgers isn't likely the better option in 2023. The undisputable reality is that Rodgers will not be our QB in 2029, while it is possible that Jordan Love is. I favor moving on because I don't think we have the ammo to win it all this year, and I would prefer to get something for Rodgers and see what we have in Love.
Yes.
There comes a time for every elite QB to realize that he is no longer the franchise. I suppose that MLF and Guty might still think that he is. (…for he is getting PAID like he is in 2023 if nothing changes). But much of PackerNation is thinking that we will never have a softer fall than we have set up for 2023, in transitioning to Love. Sure, we might be wrong. But a GM could hardly ask for a better set of circumstances if he wants to choose to move on.
Guty will get criticized, no matter what happens. I think he can make a case to keep Rodgers for one more year. But he can make a better case, I think, in making the move to Love.
Come on down and try some of our delicious green chili! Best in the world!
I think what gets lost in a lot of these conversations/arguments is that a lot of the posters who prefer to move on this offseason aren't arguing that Rodgers isn't likely the better option in 2023. The undisputable reality is that Rodgers will not be our QB in 2029, while it is possible that Jordan Love is. I favor moving on because I don't think we have the ammo to win it all this year, and I would prefer to get something for Rodgers and see what we have in Love.
Love won’t be our QB in 2040 so should we move on?
If you can’t compete for a sb with mvp, hof, best qb of all time … you should be moving on from your gm not the qb.
Still have 2 dark horses in Seattle and New England.
Two HOF coaches, two oldest coaches in the league. Neither got time to see how Geno Smith and Mac Jones pan out. Seattle got a ton of picks and a decent team, west coast. NE is Bill, they got cap room to bring in Aaron’s friends and more and Bill will give him a top D.
Lots of teams would be interested but they are not interested in giving up a first round pick. It takes a really rare situation for that price because AR has at most 2 years left, probably only 1. So unless a team has a year window to a SB, it simply is not worth a 1st round pick.
For the rest of the league (excepting GB) the fair price for 1-2 years of AR is a 3rd round pick. That is all, unfortunately. Gute should have taken Denver up on their offer a couple of years ago.
Lots of teams would be interested but they are not interested in giving up a first round pick. It takes a really rare situation for that price because AR has at most 2 years left, probably only 1. So unless a team has a year window to a SB, it simply is not worth a 1st round pick.
For the rest of the league (excepting GB) the fair price for 1-2 years of AR is a 3rd round pick. That is all, unfortunately. Gute should have taken Denver up on their offer a couple of years ago.
I disagree with that.
Teams will throw out 2nd’s and 3rds for half a year (Mohammed Sanu, Emmanual Sanders) with no intent to resign them.
I can’t tell if the guy with the report is basing his take on connecting the dots from GM quotes or claiming to have inside info and using public quotes to add credibility and context, but I’m not sure I put a ton of weight in “it’s not the plan; the door isn’t closed, maybe 5%, but they’re not waiting on Rodgers’ decision”
Not saying there’s zero truth to it. Just there’s so much equivocation in his report that even he doesn’t seem willing to commit to it
This thread might be mislabeled. Why not PACKERS WATCH 2023 instead? Only because the PACKERS hold all of the cards with respect to Aaron Rodgers future this offseason. Aaron Rodgers can't do anything (besides retire) unless the Packers let him. The term "I OWN YOU" is a PACKERS term, not an Aaron Rodgers term. The Packers have the leverage regarding Aaron Rodgers' future.
It's simple: Either dump him for draft picks .......... or buy a black tent and wait him out.
This thread might be mislabeled. Why not PACKERS WATCH 2023 instead? Only because the PACKERS hold all of the cards with respect to Aaron Rodgers future this offseason. Aaron Rodgers can't do anything (besides retire) unless the Packers let him. The term "I OWN YOU" is a PACKERS term, not an Aaron Rodgers term. The Packers have the leverage regarding Aaron Rodgers' future.
It's simple: Either dump him for draft picks .......... or buy a black tent and wait him out.
The Packers don’t have any leverage. Sounds good to say they do but the reality there isn’t any.
In terms of a trade if he doesn’t like where they’re trading him he threatens that team he will retire. They back out of the trade. No one is reading resources for nothing. He ends up on the books for us.
He comes back he is either the starter or the backup. Regardless it costs us $60M and there’s no way at that price he’s a backup. Gutenbumst would look more stupid than he already does.
I think what gets lost in a lot of these conversations/arguments is that a lot of the posters who prefer to move on this offseason aren't arguing that Rodgers isn't likely the better option in 2023. The undisputable reality is that Rodgers will not be our QB in 2029, while it is possible that Jordan Love is. I favor moving on because I don't think we have the ammo to win it all this year, and I would prefer to get something for Rodgers and see what we have in Love.
Love won’t be our QB in 2040 so should we move on?
If you can’t compete for a sb with mvp, hof, best qb of all time … you should be moving on from your gm not the qb.
Engaging in this is, knowing that I'm almost certainly not going to change your mind. We both agree that Rodgers is one of the best QB to ever play the game. Your take appears to be that Rodgers is still at the absolute top of his game. I did not see that this past season. I saw a good to very good QB at times, but there was a regression last year in his ability to find and get the ball to the open man. Agreed that there was inconsistency among the receivers and offensive line, but there were plenty of plays that could have and should have been made but weren't. There is a natural arc that any player that plays for as long as he has follows. In his first few years he had a stupid amount of athleticism but not the knowledge and savvy. As that improved, he hit a very long period of prime years where he was at the top of his game both physically and mentally. And now, his physical skills are starting to decline. There is an adage that has been around longer than you or I that it is better to move on a year early than a year late. This is the point that we are at now. As I stated in my original post I do still think that Rodgers in 2023 is better than Love in 2023. The risk in keeping Rodgers is that he may (and to be fair, most likely will) further regress to some degree this year. If this is the case, Green Bay will not be able to get any capital for him next year, and will still have to deal with the massive salary cap implications, while also gaining no NFL game evaluations for Love. I favor the Love route because we can gain experience and further evaluation of him in NFL games while freeing up salary cap and gaining draft capital in order to make a looming decision on Love that could impact the next decade.
There is an adage that has been around longer than you or I that it is better to move on a year early than a year late. This is the point that we are at now. As I stated in my original post I do still think that Rodgers in 2023 is better than Love in 2023. The risk in keeping Rodgers is that he may (and to be fair, most likely will) further regress to some degree this year. If this is the case, Green Bay will not be able to get any capital for him next year, and will still have to deal with the massive salary cap implications, while also gaining no NFL game evaluations for Love. I favor the Love route because we can gain experience and further evaluation of him in NFL games while freeing up salary cap and gaining draft capital in order to make a looming decision on Love that could impact the next decade.
I tend to agree with the point of moving on earlier then later, with every position besides QB, specially when it comes to QB's as good as Rodgers, or Brady and a few others, the reason GM's hold onto these guys is simple, the alternative has such a high fail rate, in most cases teams that do move on to a different QB, repeat that process a year or two later, sometimes for years before finding a QB at least good enough not to be a detriment or lose games do to lack of ability
until I hear Guty and the FO say they want to move on with Love, then I think Rodgers will be back, imo this is a better team then most think, and if Guty feels the same way then he will do his best to try and make another run, and Rodgers at the helm is more of a sure thing then Love.
Matt I think your under estimating what poor and inconsistent protection does for a QB, same with decision making when they don't know where the receiver is going, any QB will struggle dealing with those issues, not absolving Rodgers of his fault in any of this, rather stuff like that makes a player look worse then they actually are
There is an adage that has been around longer than you or I that it is better to move on a year early than a year late. This is the point that we are at now. As I stated in my original post I do still think that Rodgers in 2023 is better than Love in 2023. The risk in keeping Rodgers is that he may (and to be fair, most likely will) further regress to some degree this year. If this is the case, Green Bay will not be able to get any capital for him next year, and will still have to deal with the massive salary cap implications, while also gaining no NFL game evaluations for Love. I favor the Love route because we can gain experience and further evaluation of him in NFL games while freeing up salary cap and gaining draft capital in order to make a looming decision on Love that could impact the next decade.
I tend to agree with the point of moving on earlier then later, with every position besides QB, specially when it comes to QB's as good as Rodgers, or Brady and a few others, the reason GM's hold onto these guys is simple, the alternative has such a high fail rate, in most cases teams that do move on to a different QB, repeat that process a year or two later, sometimes for years before finding a QB at least good enough not to be a detriment or lose games do to lack of ability
until I hear Guty and the FO say they want to move on with Love, then I think Rodgers will be back, imo this is a better team then most think, and if Guty feels the same way then he will do his best to try and make another run, and Rodgers at the helm is more of a sure thing then Love.
Matt I think your under estimating what poor and inconsistent protection does for a QB, same with decision making when they don't know where the receiver is going, any QB will struggle dealing with those issues, not absolving Rodgers of his fault in any of this, rather stuff like that makes a player look worse then they actually are
The reason the adage is so sound is that at a certain point in a players career, they have hit the APEX of their career abilities. Inevitably there will be some regression due to age. That is not in question. The question is how much regression and how quickly it happens. Again, in a bubble, I will take Rodgers at his current level vs the unknow hope in Love. But we are not in a bubble. One is paid extraordinarily more than the other, and the one who is paid significantly less unquestionably has more potential future upside.
The point of my post was to point out there are two different conversations happening here. Rodgers gives the Packers a better chance to win this year. Love gives us a better chance to win over time. Both can be true.
I am going to take this conversation another step.
If we solely look at 2022, I am very confident our season win/loss record is quite similar if Jordan Love was taking the snaps compared to Aaron Rodgers.
The reason I feel this way is we have games that the Packers win no matter who was at quarterback:
1. Chicago (1)
2. Tampa
3. LA Rams
4. Minnesota (2)
These four games the net point differential between the Packers defense/STs vs the opposing offense is 12 points or less. That means the Packers offense just needed to score 13 points to win the game.
The next tier of games we won is in the middle. Not as obvious but certainly not because of a super hero effort from the QB:
1. Chicago (2) - let's face it...Christian Watson won this game
2. Miami - let's face it...Tua's concussion, Xavier Howard's dropped INT, and Jarron Reed won us this game
The other tier is games I can attribute the QB having a big reason why we won the game:
1. New England
2. Dallas
The final tier are games we lost largely due to the failure of the QB not getting it done:
1. Detroit (1)
2. Washington
3. Detroit (2)
If we look at 2022, I don't see a big drop off in Packers performance from what we saw to what we would have had if Jordan Love were QB. And that is a big factor for me when deciding to move on.
