Successful Season

[go pak go]

omg, @go pak go thank you; that video made my night.

Of note: Savage blitzed on a lot of those early season highlights but not as many as the late ones. Interesting.

And not to start a whole thing, but I think Gary might be good, too.

Few things popped out at me.

1. Lack of interceptions by Jaire. Once the dude puts it together, this defense could be very feared.
2. We had a ton of goalline and 3rd/4th and short stops last year.
3. Kevin King made a lot of big time plays.

As for the Savage comment, I do remember that too and if I also remember correct, didn't Savage miss a lot of sacks? Like he was in position but couldn't make the tackle or came in too hot etc?

I still think one of my favorite plays in 2019 was the CB blitz from Jaire Alexander on Russell Wilson on the 2 point conversion in the Playoffs. Man did we need a stop and man did Pettine and Alexander deliver on a perfect play call and execution on that call.

[go pak go]

Also, Preston Smith shows up on 3rd down more than any player I think I can ever remember in the Green and Gold.

[Yoop]

Capers 2 gaped the DT and concentrated on stopping the pass, Pettine uses a single gap scheme up front, which is fine, as long as you have two very good ILB's to play those empty gaps, very very few teams can accomplish what SF was able to do last year, and iether front works fine as long as you have the talent to make them a success.

most teams been using nickle as there base defense now for 10 years, it's a copy cat league, when DC saw what Capers was able to do back in 09 and 10 with the 2-5,

Pettine does not use mostly a single gap scheme up front. Our defensive lineman are generally 2 gapping the majority of the time. Playing a 1 gap scheme for the front 5/6/7 is easy for the ILBs. They fill a gap no matter what, so we would not need very good ones to do that. That's not what we as a defense do however. It is actually impossible to do with the amount of 5+ DBs we play (too many gaps to fill. No team in the NFL is playing a majority 1 gap scheme for run defense any longer. It's just impossible to do when more DBs are required to combat the passing game.

Just an FYI a 2-5 is not nickel... That would be a base defense with 2 DL, 2 OLBs, and 3 2nd level linebackers. Nickel refers to 5 DBs. Dime refers to 6. We have generally played a 2-4 nickel in the past and lately implemented some more 3-3.

One of our biggest issue in stopping the run last season was not necessarily the defensive line, which wasn't all that great either, but our OLBs. Especially in the San Fransisco game, they were continually pulling a Clay Matthews or Jared Allen and running upfield.

I would say barring injuries a successful season for the defense would be top 10 bordering on top 5. The horses are there and if healthy they can run!

I disagree, sure we two gap on pure run downs (and everyone except Clark suck at it), but pettine uses penetration from his DT's on most downs, Clark often sets up in a gap, same with Keke, how could you possibly 2 gap Adams, the guy can't shed a block to save his life, and LOwery isn't much better

and while you think the OLB's need to protect the edge, it's not the nature of a pass rushing end to do so, since this is a passing league there natural habit is to get into the backfield as fast as they can, true as often as SF ran, the Smiths should have dialed that back, but then Pettine should have coached that up the week prior to the game.

nope we went over this before, when you see a lot of off coverage and zone from edge CB then automatically you should assume they as well as the SS and ILB's are tasked with containing the edge and not so much the edge rushers, just try containing the edge and also be a effective pass rusher.

same thing applys to a DT trying to two gap and also penetrate, and Pettine set up this defense to rush the QB, we rarely 2 gap.

[Pckfn23]

Let's talk about this logically. If there are 5 offensive linemen on the field, which there always are, then there are 6 gaps. A team would need all 6 front end players to cover every gap if playing nickel. A team would want to play nickel because this is a passing league and there would be 3+ receivers on the field with no TE out there (or even if a TE split). This would leave no player to "clean up" as it were and that would fall to the safeties. So we drop a safety into the box to help defend the run. HOWEVER, why we want to do that in a passing league? That doesn't make sense to do on a regular basis in a passing league. Ok, let's get back to the solution in a bit. Now what happens if the offense adds a TE to the mix. Maybe they go 11 personnel (which was run 60% of the time in the NFL in 2019 https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/pers ... uency.html). This means there is 1 TE and 1 RB with 3 WRs on the field. Now instead of 6 gaps to cover, with an inline TE we now have 7 gaps to cover. This means a defense has 2 choices if they want to 1 gap across the board. They can go to their base to gain 7 front defenders or they can stay in nickel and drop a safety down into the box. Now in a passing league, neither decision is a good one. Both leave you with a single high safety only and 3 CBs/Ss man up on their receivers. NOW, only the other safety is your clean up man should the running back slip through a gap. That doesn't even mention the TE or RB going out on routes which the safety and ILB would need to cover respectively. Do these scenarios happen on occasion? ABSOLUTELY! Is this how the Packers normally play? No.

Now the solution. A defense would 2 Gap one or more of their defensive lineman. In this way you can leave the ILB free instead of committing him to a gap. We also should have our OLB set the edge to bounce a RB out farther giving the ILBs time to get there. (we do as does every teams OLBs in a 3-4 or DEs in 4-3) It would make no sense to have an ILB or SS set the edge as they would normally be playing inside the tackles. Plus you don't want 200 pound guys setting the edge against 300 pound guys. That's a no win situation right there. What did this mean for the Packers. It meant that when it was NOT a passing down Kenny Clark would be your 2 gap defender. Tyler Lancaster would be your 2 gap defender. At times Dean Lowry would be your 2 gap defender. At times Adams would be your 2 gap defender. The latter 2 you do not want doing it consistently, but they need to from time to time as all iDL do. This gains us a gap so that our ILB can play more freely.

[Pckfn23]

OK .......... maybe I should have said "alot" of fire, not "any" fire. Sure one guy has it (Z Smith). Not sure about Jaire yet.

I mean this defense has huge swagger. Every level has Pro Bowl level players outside of MLB.

We have Kenny, Z and Preston, Jaire and King, and Amos. All of them were Pro Bowl level.

What's more, our defense for the first time in ever actually got me excited when it was 3rd down because I was confident we would make a big play. I mean how used to it were we last year seeing Preston do this?



or our defense do the D train?

I mean we have 15 minutes of defensive highlights. There is incredible swagger. Juice. Fire. Whatever you want to call it.



We were 13-3 primarily because of this defense.

Oh man! I forgot. Yes this defense did have some swagger last year. I loved it. First time in a long time they looked like they were having fun.

[go pak go]

Let's talk about this logically. If there are 5 offensive linemen on the field, which there always are, then there are 6 gaps. A team would need all 6 front end players to cover every gap if playing nickel. A team would want to play nickel because this is a passing league and there would be 3+ receivers on the field with no TE out there (or even if a TE split). This would leave no player to "clean up" as it were and that would fall to the safeties. So we drop a safety into the box to help defend the run. HOWEVER, why we want to do that in a passing league? That doesn't make sense to do on a regular basis in a passing league. Ok, let's get back to the solution in a bit. Now what happens if the offense adds a TE to the mix. Maybe they go 11 personnel (which was run 60% of the time in the NFL in 2019 https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/pers ... uency.html). This means there is 1 TE and 1 RB with 3 WRs on the field. Now instead of 6 gaps to cover, with an inline TE we now have 7 gaps to cover. This means a defense has 2 choices if they want to 1 gap across the board. They can go to their base to gain 7 front defenders or they can stay in nickel and drop a safety down into the box. Now in a passing league, neither decision is a good one. Both leave you with a single high safety only and 3 CBs/Ss man up on their receivers. NOW, only the other safety is your clean up man should the running back slip through a gap. That doesn't even mention the TE or RB going out on routes which the safety and ILB would need to cover respectively. Do these scenarios happen on occasion? ABSOLUTELY! Is this how the Packers normally play? No.

Now the solution. A defense would 2 Gap one or more of their defensive lineman. In this way you can leave the ILB free instead of committing him to a gap. We also should have our OLB set the edge to bounce a RB out farther giving the ILBs time to get there. (we do as does every teams OLBs in a 3-4 or DEs in 4-3) It would make no sense to have an ILB or SS set the edge as they would normally be playing inside the tackles. Plus you don't want 200 pound guys setting the edge against 300 pound guys. That's a no win situation right there. What did this mean for the Packers. It meant that when it was NOT a passing down Kenny Clark would be your 2 gap defender. Tyler Lancaster would be your 2 gap defender. At times Dean Lowry would be your 2 gap defender. At times Adams would be your 2 gap defender. The latter 2 you do not want doing it consistently, but they need to from time to time as all iDL do. This gains us a gap so that our ILB can play more freely.

Nice post and thank you! I learned something reading that. You broke down something so well that it cleared up something I already thought I knew.

[Yoop]

Let's talk about this logically. If there are 5 offensive linemen on the field, which there always are, then there are 6 gaps. A team would need all 6 front end players to cover every gap if playing nickel. A team would want to play nickel because this is a passing league and there would be 3+ receivers on the field with no TE out there (or even if a TE split). This would leave no player to "clean up" as it were and that would fall to the safeties. So we drop a safety into the box to help defend the run. HOWEVER, why we want to do that in a passing league? That doesn't make sense to do on a regular basis in a passing league. Ok, let's get back to the solution in a bit. Now what happens if the offense adds a TE to the mix. Maybe they go 11 personnel (which was run 60% of the time in the NFL in 2019 https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/pers ... uency.html). This means there is 1 TE and 1 RB with 3 WRs on the field. Now instead of 6 gaps to cover, with an inline TE we now have 7 gaps to cover. This means a defense has 2 choices if they want to 1 gap across the board. They can go to their base to gain 7 front defenders or they can stay in nickel and drop a safety down into the box. Now in a passing league, neither decision is a good one. Both leave you with a single high safety only and 3 CBs/Ss man up on their receivers. NOW, only the other safety is your clean up man should the running back slip through a gap. That doesn't even mention the TE or RB going out on routes which the safety and ILB would need to cover respectively. Do these scenarios happen on occasion? ABSOLUTELY! Is this how the Packers normally play? No.

Now the solution. A defense would 2 Gap one or more of their defensive lineman. In this way you can leave the ILB free instead of committing him to a gap. We also should have our OLB set the edge to bounce a RB out farther giving the ILBs time to get there. (we do as does every teams OLBs in a 3-4 or DEs in 4-3) It would make no sense to have an ILB or SS set the edge as they would normally be playing inside the tackles. Plus you don't want 200 pound guys setting the edge against 300 pound guys. That's a no win situation right there. What did this mean for the Packers. It meant that when it was NOT a passing down Kenny Clark would be your 2 gap defender. Tyler Lancaster would be your 2 gap defender. At times Dean Lowry would be your 2 gap defender. At times Adams would be your 2 gap defender. The latter 2 you do not want doing it consistently, but they need to from time to time as all iDL do. This gains us a gap so that our ILB can play more freely.

yada yada yada, your just making this as complicated as possible to what? try and confuse me?, the only downs where gap control is paramount is defending the run, or RO, and as I said we do 2 gap Clark on run downs, and your DT's rarely fill the C gaps, rather then simply acknowledging that we mostly single gap on passing downs, your aim is to bring stuff to this conversation that really doesn't pertain to anything I said, if you have any vids of the minny game or SF, just go look how Clark and the rest pre set, sure I agreed with the Smiths over pursuit, but we also where in single gap sets often with the tackles.

we bring down a safety for coverage as well as stopping the run, lis, just more stuff to complicate this conversation.

[RingoCStarrQB]

Sorry, I found it hard to notice swagger in the NFCCG. Ughh! Everybody is grabbing out there............GRAB GRAB GRAB.

Hey, you're supposed to be a helluva defensive front .... you didn't look like it to me .... all the way down 70 yards.



42 rushing attempts, 6.8 yards per carry.

GRAB GRAB GRAB.

Packers had 5 sacks versus the Seahawks. Nice playoff game win despite giving up 100 yards on the ground (Defense had 5 sacks). Defense kept the offense in the game. Offense got the key first downs down the stretch (passes to Graham and Adams) which kept the D off the field down the stretch. Great day to be a Packers fan.

[wallyuwl]

Also, Preston Smith shows up on 3rd down more than any player I think I can ever remember in the Green and Gold.

For the first half of the season he did.

[Drj820]

Based on the roster, I would say a division win is a successful season. I can’t really expect a ton more. We all saw how some cookies crumbled our way last year. A division win, a playoff birth while maybe even winning a game...would be a great fun year if it happens.

That said, that’s the rational mind speaking. Another part of me really thinks this year is the window. We were 13-3 last year, Nfc championship game. That means we were really really close in theory. Well, a lot of the key players who helped us get there are due a contract next year. We may not have Jones after this year, rodgers could be gone at any time, bak could be gone soon, other key OLmen, Clark needs a big time deal, king too...the list goes on. This year is critical and could be a ceiling unless Gutey starts being better at his job. So that makes me think a successful season would entail more than the good times of 2011 and later.

[YoHoChecko]

Based on the roster, I would say a division win is a successful season. I can’t really expect a ton more. We all saw how some cookies crumbled our way last year. A division win, a playoff birth while maybe even winning a game...would be a great fun year if it happens.

That said, that’s the rational mind speaking. Another part of me really thinks this year is the window. We were 13-3 last year, Nfc championship game. That means we were really really close in theory. Well, a lot of the key players who helped us get there are due a contract next year. We may not have Jones after this year, rodgers could be gone at any time, bak could be gone soon, other key OLmen, Clark needs a big time deal, king too...the list goes on. This year is critical and could be a ceiling unless Gutey starts being better at his job. So that makes me think a successful season would entail more than the good times of 2011 and later.

I see this year as the first year of a ~3-year window. I think there's no way in heck we let Bakh or Clark go, and there's a decent chance we keep one more among our top guys.

So we've got 2-4 more years of Rodgers entering years 2 through 5 in the MLF system. We've got that really high continuity score someone posted, indicating we have consistency among our key pieces, which should be huge for this year, and then we get to sprinkle in some additions to the holes and weaknesses we have in subsequent drafts.

[Yoop]

Based on the roster, I would say a division win is a successful season. I can’t really expect a ton more. We all saw how some cookies crumbled our way last year. A division win, a playoff birth while maybe even winning a game...would be a great fun year if it happens.

That said, that’s the rational mind speaking. Another part of me really thinks this year is the window. We were 13-3 last year, Nfc championship game. That means we were really really close in theory. Well, a lot of the key players who helped us get there are due a contract next year. We may not have Jones after this year, rodgers could be gone at any time, bak could be gone soon, other key OLmen, Clark needs a big time deal, king too...the list goes on. This year is critical and could be a ceiling unless Gutey starts being better at his job. So that makes me think a successful season would entail more than the good times of 2011 and later.

I see this year as the first year of a ~3-year window. I think there's no way in heck we let Bakh or Clark go, and there's a decent chance we keep one more among our top guys.

So we've got 2-4 more years of Rodgers entering years 2 through 5 in the MLF system. We've got that really high continuity score someone posted, indicating we have consistency among our key pieces, which should be huge for this year, and then we get to sprinkle in some additions to the holes and weaknesses we have in subsequent drafts.

course if we win the SB there will be the asterik that we did it during the covid season, so it be like 1983

I tend to agree, we'll be able to keep at least 3 of our best of the 5, other teams will have money issues to and I think teams will focus even more on signing there own players, I think the window stuff becomes media over hype to a degree, teams are always losing and adding talent.

I admit though Guty's draft choice leave me puzzled.

[go pak go]

Based on the roster, I would say a division win is a successful season. I can’t really expect a ton more. We all saw how some cookies crumbled our way last year. A division win, a playoff birth while maybe even winning a game...would be a great fun year if it happens.

That said, that’s the rational mind speaking. Another part of me really thinks this year is the window. We were 13-3 last year, Nfc championship game. That means we were really really close in theory. Well, a lot of the key players who helped us get there are due a contract next year. We may not have Jones after this year, rodgers could be gone at any time, bak could be gone soon, other key OLmen, Clark needs a big time deal, king too...the list goes on. This year is critical and could be a ceiling unless Gutey starts being better at his job. So that makes me think a successful season would entail more than the good times of 2011 and later.

I see this year as the first year of a ~3-year window. I think there's no way in heck we let Bakh or Clark go, and there's a decent chance we keep one more among our top guys.

So we've got 2-4 more years of Rodgers entering years 2 through 5 in the MLF system. We've got that really high continuity score someone posted, indicating we have consistency among our key pieces, which should be huge for this year, and then we get to sprinkle in some additions to the holes and weaknesses we have in subsequent drafts.

Right Tackle
Right Guard
Center
Left Tackle
CB2
DT1
RB1
ILB1
ILB2
WR2,WR3

These are all positions at the moment going into 2021 of which we will have holes or could use improvement. Sure some of them we can resign on our own, but that still leaves a lot to fill either through discount FA, draft selection, or hope our current discount FA works out.

Now this picture looks a whole lot different if Runyan/Stepaniak step up or a guy like Hollman or Jackson step up. But it's still a lot. I mean this is every team though. It's hard to keep a team together.

[YoHoChecko]

Right Tackle
Right Guard
Center
Left Tackle
CB2
DT1
RB1
ILB1
ILB2
WR2,WR3

Did you seriously just list every position where a free agent contract expires over the next two years and count it as a hole?

Honestly, I see your caveat at the bottom, but that's just a completely useless and irrelevant look at roster composition. Like less than useless; the kind of information that creates false narratives more effectively than realistic ones. It's actively a bad use of information.

[Drj820]

Right Tackle
Right Guard
Center
Left Tackle
CB2
DT1
RB1
ILB1
ILB2
WR2,WR3

Did you seriously just list every position where a free agent contract expires over the next two years and count it as a hole?

Honestly, I see your caveat at the bottom, but that's just a completely useless and irrelevant look at roster composition. Like less than useless; the kind of information that creates false narratives more effectively than realistic ones. It's actively a bad use of information.

I mean it’s fair to list out possible shake ups, and not think of them as locks as we head into the future. Some will get locked up, some won’t. The 3 year window you speak of really 100% depends on how well Gutey does his job as it gets further and further away from the gifts TT gave him. There are a lot of players making big money now, and he will need to fill out the other spots well for that to be a true three year window.

I still see this year as the final year of a particular window, and next year starting another window that we aren’t quite sure how it will look yet.

[go pak go]

Right Tackle
Right Guard
Center
Left Tackle
CB2
DT1
RB1
ILB1
ILB2
WR2,WR3

Did you seriously just list every position where a free agent contract expires over the next two years and count it as a hole?

Honestly, I see your caveat at the bottom, but that's just a completely useless and irrelevant look at roster composition. Like less than useless; the kind of information that creates false narratives more effectively than realistic ones. It's actively a bad use of information.

No it's not. It shows that we are potentially churning a new roster. Cripes. Look at the offensive line alone. There is a serious possibility that the only one player on the offensive line in 2021 will have been on the team in 2019. (the Oline as we know it) That's 80% turn. That's a whole new line.

Sure there is a chance we sign Bak or Linsley but that's far from guaranteed. Especially with the amount of "cheap" positions about to turn expensive positions and we have no idea what the cap situation will look like in 2021 or 2022.

And it's not next two years. It's they have a contract expire after this year or they were a cheap hole filled this past year with no data to go on in a Packers uniform.

Right Tackle - position is currently in question
Right Guard - position is currently in question
Center - expires after 2020
Left Tackle - expires after 2020
CB2 - expires after 2020 (cheap rookie deal)
DT1 - expires after 2020 (just went from cheap to expensive)
RB1 - expires after 2020 (cheap rookie deal)
ILB1 - position is currently in question and player hasn't played a full season in two years
ILB2 - we don't have a player here
WR2, WR3 - current position is definitely still in question

That's a lot of holes.

We are almost assured that LT, CB2, C DT (just happened), RB1 will get moderately more to a lot more expensive in 2021.

So when you lay out the data like that, it allows people to see that we likely can keep at most 2 of the four holes who will get more expensive. And maybe only 1. It also means we likely can't apply a quick fix at any other position in FA if we need to.

Absolutely we can fill some of these holes with resigning players (we already did one). But that's a lot of holes and we don't know what resources we will have to fill them. And that's not even considering the significant cap hit increase from Rodgers, Smith, and Smith.

I am more cautious and conservative on our perceived window than others.

The 2021 team could end up looking very different than the 2019 team. That has a possibility of being a new window.

[YoHoChecko]

The 2021 team could end up looking very different than the 2019 team. That has a possibility of being a new window.

How many players on a team have to stick together to be "a window?"

Right now Rodgers is under contract for 4 more years.
The Smiths have 3 more years.
Davante has 2 more years.
Savage and Amos have 3 more years.
Jaire has 2 more years.
Kenny Clark suddenly has 5 more years.
Elgton Jenkins has 3 more years.

If we keep Bakhtiari, then we're looking at AT LEAST 20-21 with pro bowl caliber players at QB, LT, OG, EDGE, EDGE, S, CB, WR

Like, every team churns their roster. Our CORE is together for at least two years, pending Baktiari (and Jones, I suppose), and most of them 3 years.

That's the window.

[go pak go]

The 2021 team could end up looking very different than the 2019 team. That has a possibility of being a new window.

How many players on a team have to stick together to be "a window?"

Right now Rodgers is under contract for 4 more years.
The Smiths have 3 more years.
Davante has 2 more years.
Savage and Amos have 3 more years.
Jaire has 2 more years.
Kenny Clark suddenly has 5 more years.
Elgton Jenkins has 3 more years.

If we keep Bakhtiari, then we're looking at AT LEAST 20-21 with pro bowl caliber players at QB, LT, OG, EDGE, EDGE, S, CB, WR

Like, every team churns their roster. Our CORE is together for at least two years, pending Baktiari (and Jones, I suppose), and most of them 3 years.

That's the window.

Depends on how you look at it. There are other ways of looking things here.

If we look at the 2019 team, our core on offense was the following:

Rodgers, Adams, Jones, Offensive Line. We had all of it.

The 2021 Packers team could be the following:

Rodgers, Adams 20% of the offensive line.

I would call that a new window.

I think I am especially looking at our Oline. I think we all assume that we are bringing Bak back but the Packers offering a 3rd contract to players is just super rare. We hardly ever do it. I'm honestly trying to think of a player we did to it for besides Rodgers.

As Packers fans, we have had incredible consistency of our key Olinemen for almost 15 years now.

Since really what 2006? We have known the following at tackle and center:
Clifton/Bak
Tauscher/Bulaga
Wells/Linsley

That's incredible consistency and has been the foundation of our great offensive performance the last 15 years. So yes. I would consider that a new window.

[Yoop]

The 2021 team could end up looking very different than the 2019 team. That has a possibility of being a new window.

How many players on a team have to stick together to be "a window?"

Right now Rodgers is under contract for 4 more years.
The Smiths have 3 more years.
Davante has 2 more years.
Savage and Amos have 3 more years.
Jaire has 2 more years.
Kenny Clark suddenly has 5 more years.
Elgton Jenkins has 3 more years.

If we keep Bakhtiari, then we're looking at AT LEAST 20-21 with pro bowl caliber players at QB, LT, OG, EDGE, EDGE, S, CB, WR

Like, every team churns their roster. Our CORE is together for at least two years, pending Baktiari (and Jones, I suppose), and most of them 3 years.

That's the window.

Depends on how you look at it. There are other ways of looking things here.

If we look at the 2019 team, our core on offense was the following:

Rodgers, Adams, Jones, Offensive Line. We had all of it.

The 2021 Packers team could be the following:

Rodgers, Adams 20% of the offensive line.

I would call that a new window.

I think I am especially looking at our Oline. I think we all assume that we are bringing Bak back but the Packers offering a 3rd contract to players is just super rare. We hardly ever do it. I'm honestly trying to think of a player we did to it for besides Rodgers.

As Packers fans, we have had incredible consistency of our key Olinemen for almost 15 years now.

Since really what 2006? We have known the following at tackle and center:
Clifton/Bak
Tauscher/Bulaga
Wells/Linsley

That's incredible consistency and has been the foundation of our great offensive performance the last 15 years. So yes. I would consider that a new window.

your counting the chickens presuming the weasel has already entered the coup , it's a very good chance that we do sign Bak to a 3rd contract, I think people are assuming some team will want a 3rd contract LT based on game film more then we do, if Bak plays to last years standard I doubt team will be so quick to over pay him, in fact we may even get the home town discount.

I think for some, including you the more important players to sign are the ones that seem the hardest to replace, and obviously that would be Clark and Bak, but imho Jones is just as hard to find, I agree with Waldo, we've only seen a small sample of what he could be given more receiver touches, it could also be a reason we passed over some of the receivers in this draft class, I would not be surprised at all to see him top 2000 yrds combined this season, actually I half heartedly expect it.

I also think we have some replacement OL already on the roster, and the defense is pretty much set for several years, I see this team in pretty good shape for the nest 3 years, course this kind of stuff can change quickly under certain circumstances that are unforsable ( injury's mostly)

[salmar80]

This may be loser mentality, but if I get to see any meaningful Packer football games this year, I'll be happy.