2023 Packers Defense Expectations?

[TheSkeptic]

I agree that our players are not playing up to their capabilities. Too much standing around and watching rather than hustling to the ball or wherever they need to be. You certainly expect more from these higher draft picks. But, I'm also not sure how much of this is due to coaching. This passive defensive scheme seems to lead to passive defensive players with passive attitudes. I have always thought that defense (all of football actually) needs to be aggressive and the attitude must be one of aggression. Even our pass rush yesterday was poorly schemed. This defense screams for a whole new attitude being necessary.

And passive attitudes result in lost games and no playoffs.

[Labrev]

I tell ya who ran a bend but don’t break scheme pretty well: Mike Pettine. His entire time here (minus that one terrible play) teams would slowly move down the field and many would all get mad…yet more times than not the opponents drives would end in FGs.

Mike Pettine was 1000x better than what we have now

He gave up over 200 yards to 1 RB, the QB only had to attempt 8 passes but they won... in a playoff game (and the D was clearly falling apart in the weeks leading up to that game).

It's not just our fans that hate the guy, no one wants him. And if some team does make him DC ever again, he will flop, after the initial few weeks of good play that all newly-hired coaches get.

[Drj820]

I tell ya who ran a bend but don’t break scheme pretty well: Mike Pettine. His entire time here (minus that one terrible play) teams would slowly move down the field and many would all get mad…yet more times than not the opponents drives would end in FGs.

Mike Pettine was 1000x better than what we have now

He gave up over 200 yards to 1 RB, the QB only had to attempt 8 passes but they won... in a playoff game (and the D was clearly falling apart in the weeks leading up to that game).

It's not just our fans that hate the guy, no one wants him. And if some team does make him DC ever again, he will flop, after the initial few weeks of good play that all newly-hired coaches get.

While that playoff game was egregiously bad, the players on the defense were 10x worse than they are now. In those days, Tyler Lancaster and dean Lowry played most of the downs, out of the league Blake Martinez was our top ILB, and I have no idea who even played beside him.

Personnel wise, that team was destined to not be able to stop the run. Yes we got whipped, but we got whipped by a much better roster that day.

Pettine would look a lot better with this defensive roster

[Yoop]

I tell ya who ran a bend but don’t break scheme pretty well: Mike Pettine. His entire time here (minus that one terrible play) teams would slowly move down the field and many would all get mad…yet more times than not the opponents drives would end in FGs.

Mike Pettine was 1000x better than what we have now

He gave up over 200 yards to 1 RB, the QB only had to attempt 8 passes but they won... in a playoff game (and the D was clearly falling apart in the weeks leading up to that game).

It's not just our fans that hate the guy, no one wants him. And if some team does make him DC ever again, he will flop, after the initial few weeks of good play that all newly-hired coaches get.

While that playoff game was egregiously bad, the players on the defense were 10x worse than they are now. In those days, Tyler Lancaster and dean Lowry played most of the downs, out of the league Blake Martinez was our top ILB, and I have no idea who even played beside him.

Personnel wise, that team was destined to not be able to stop the run. Yes we got whipped, but we got whipped by a much better roster that day.

Pettine would look a lot better with this defensive roster

never made a lic of sense to dump Pettine, Pettine is a off shoot of the defense most of us want, he's a product of the Rex Ryan lineage, where both Pass rush and coverage are disguised, his unit in 2020 produced very good pass rush stats, and his coverage wasn't to bad either.

Blogger Butkowski said in a article I brought a week ago that Lafleur over ruled Pettine in that 2020 playoff game we saw King torched for a late TD, Lafleur called single high man coverage, and Stokes was roasted.

can anyone imagine the conversation or angst from Pettine after Matt pulled that boner? obviously Matt didn't let him hang around to further complain, and Barry has never been better then Pettine, if Pettine had this front 7 to work with I doubt we'd need to win any more games to make the PO's this season, we'd already be locked in.

I like Lafleur as a offensive minded coach, he should have never got involved running a defense.

I want a new cord from a off shoot of the Martindale lineage, if you can't disguise your intentions on defense now days offenses will pick you apart.

[APB]

I tell ya who ran a bend but don’t break scheme pretty well: Mike Pettine. His entire time here (minus that one terrible play) teams would slowly move down the field and many would all get mad…yet more times than not the opponents drives would end in FGs.

Mike Pettine was 1000x better than what we have now

He gave up over 200 yards to 1 RB, the QB only had to attempt 8 passes but they won... in a playoff game (and the D was clearly falling apart in the weeks leading up to that game).

It's not just our fans that hate the guy, no one wants him. And if some team does make him DC ever again, he will flop, after the initial few weeks of good play that all newly-hired coaches get.

Pettine was a competent coordinator and coach but bad game-day play-caller. His back-to-back playoff embarrassments against the 49ers/Bucs were the cause of his dismissal but his defensive squads were actually competent (although admittedly middling) and an improvement over his predecessor with many of the same players.

He has maintained an "employed" status by the Bears (2021 under Nagy) and Vikings (2022-present under O'Connell) since his firing by the Packers, both in positions titled as "senior defensive assistant". I'd say he was and currently is wanted and valued as a defensive mind.

[Yoop]

the only reason Pettine was better then Capers had to do with the Smiths and Amos, sometimes changing a coach also inspires players some too.

again could it be that Lafleurs meddling with how Pettine called the plays in those PO losses been why we lost those games, Butkowski seems to think so

[BF004]

Wish we played a brand of football that others didn’t wanna play

Can we just hire Queen to be our DC?

[LombardiTime]

Campbell likely gone.

Savage, and possibly every other Safety on the current roster other than Anthony Johnson, Jr., gone.

Jaire and the entire CB room a huge ?????? going into next season.

Barry and possibly (hopefully?) the entire coaching staff gone.

7 picks in the first 4 rounds and not too many glaring needs on the offensive side of the ball.

This offseason, the Packers have a perfect opportunity to finally take a root & branch approach and FUNDAMENTALLY change the team's approach to the defensive side of the ball.

We can dream, anyway.

[Labrev]

I tell ya who ran a bend but don’t break scheme pretty well: Mike Pettine. His entire time here (minus that one terrible play) teams would slowly move down the field and many would all get mad…yet more times than not the opponents drives would end in FGs.

Mike Pettine was 1000x better than what we have now

He gave up over 200 yards to 1 RB, the QB only had to attempt 8 passes but they won... in a playoff game (and the D was clearly falling apart in the weeks leading up to that game).

It's not just our fans that hate the guy, no one wants him. And if some team does make him DC ever again, he will flop, after the initial few weeks of good play that all newly-hired coaches get.

Pettine was a competent coordinator and coach but bad game-day play-caller. His back-to-back playoff embarrassments against the 49ers/Bucs were the cause of his dismissal but his defensive squads were actually competent (although admittedly middling) and an improvement over his predecessor with many of the same players.

He has maintained an "employed" status by the Bears (2021 under Nagy) and Vikings (2022-present under O'Connell) since his firing by the Packers, both in positions titled as "senior defensive assistant". I'd say he was and currently is wanted and valued as a defensive mind.

Pettine wasn't an improvement over Dom. You could win with Dom's defenses when the talent was up to par. Pettine's defenses cost us playoff games twice with more than Dom had. He's not even an improvement over Barry.

He went to two divisional rivals, one of which had a DC vacancy but didn't even consider him. In all likelihood they only wanted him for his insider intel on MLF and Rodgers.

Barry was an improvement over him initially solely for the fact that he switched from the 2-gap crap to 1-gap, before Barry inexplicably started playing 2-gap again last year.

He looks like a badass biker dude but he's even more meek and feeble when speaking than MLF is.

[Drj820]

He gave up over 200 yards to 1 RB, the QB only had to attempt 8 passes but they won... in a playoff game (and the D was clearly falling apart in the weeks leading up to that game).

It's not just our fans that hate the guy, no one wants him. And if some team does make him DC ever again, he will flop, after the initial few weeks of good play that all newly-hired coaches get.

Pettine was a competent coordinator and coach but bad game-day play-caller. His back-to-back playoff embarrassments against the 49ers/Bucs were the cause of his dismissal but his defensive squads were actually competent (although admittedly middling) and an improvement over his predecessor with many of the same players.

He has maintained an "employed" status by the Bears (2021 under Nagy) and Vikings (2022-present under O'Connell) since his firing by the Packers, both in positions titled as "senior defensive assistant". I'd say he was and currently is wanted and valued as a defensive mind.

Pettine wasn't an improvement over Dom. You could win with Dom's defenses when the talent was up to par. Pettine's defenses cost us playoff games twice with more than Dom had. He's not even an improvement over Barry.

He went to two divisional rivals, one of which had a DC vacancy but didn't even consider him. In all likelihood they only wanted him for his insider intel on MLF and Rodgers.

Barry was an improvement over him initially solely for the fact that he switched from the 2-gap crap to 1-gap, before Barry inexplicably started playing 2-gap again last year.

He looks like a badass biker dude but he's even more meek and feeble when speaking than MLF is.

It’s not easy to call a defense where you try to stop the run starting Dean Lowry, keke, and Lancaster on rotation on the DL, with trash ILBS including Ty summers and bj Goodson

And then have Kevin king and will Redmond as starting on your back end to defend the back end.

It’s quite the riddle.

He did fine

[Labrev]

Pettine was a competent coordinator and coach but bad game-day play-caller. His back-to-back playoff embarrassments against the 49ers/Bucs were the cause of his dismissal but his defensive squads were actually competent (although admittedly middling) and an improvement over his predecessor with many of the same players.

He has maintained an "employed" status by the Bears (2021 under Nagy) and Vikings (2022-present under O'Connell) since his firing by the Packers, both in positions titled as "senior defensive assistant". I'd say he was and currently is wanted and valued as a defensive mind.

Pettine wasn't an improvement over Dom. You could win with Dom's defenses when the talent was up to par. Pettine's defenses cost us playoff games twice with more than Dom had. He's not even an improvement over Barry.

He went to two divisional rivals, one of which had a DC vacancy but didn't even consider him. In all likelihood they only wanted him for his insider intel on MLF and Rodgers.

Barry was an improvement over him initially solely for the fact that he switched from the 2-gap crap to 1-gap, before Barry inexplicably started playing 2-gap again last year.

He looks like a badass biker dude but he's even more meek and feeble when speaking than MLF is.

It’s not easy to call a defense where you try to stop the run starting Dean Lowry, keke, and Lancaster on rotation on the DL, with trash ILBS including Ty summers and bj Goodson

And then have Kevin king and will Redmond as starting on your back end to defend the back end.

It’s quite the riddle.

He did fine

I don't accept this excuse because he didn't simply have weak players, he not only failed to try to cover the weaknesses, he PLAYED INTO their weaknesses.

Trying to 2-gap with guys like Lowry and Keke was stupid. If they're bad against the run, why are you playing them like big space-eaters?

He also famously put King on an island against a speedster. He tried to make Josh Jackson a slot corner in a man scheme, when the guy is clearly a boundary corner in a zone scheme, which probably ruined him.

Then he decided not to play Oren Burks at all when we traded up for him, probably on his input, and he looked good in preseason, and was a raw athletic guy who needed all the reps/experience he could get. We took the opposite approach with Quay and ot has given him valuable experience to grow/improvement as a player.

Fans are letting theirr correct ire over Barry cause us to wrongly think that Barry was not so bad. No, he was as bad, if not worse. It was the same crap (sacrifice everything to stop the pass... and fail to do even that).

And his defenses were to blame for the seasons going down the toilet. Barry's defenses were not to blame for our last two bad seasons.

[Drj820]

Pettine wasn't an improvement over Dom. You could win with Dom's defenses when the talent was up to par. Pettine's defenses cost us playoff games twice with more than Dom had. He's not even an improvement over Barry.

He went to two divisional rivals, one of which had a DC vacancy but didn't even consider him. In all likelihood they only wanted him for his insider intel on MLF and Rodgers.

Barry was an improvement over him initially solely for the fact that he switched from the 2-gap crap to 1-gap, before Barry inexplicably started playing 2-gap again last year.

He looks like a badass biker dude but he's even more meek and feeble when speaking than MLF is.

It’s not easy to call a defense where you try to stop the run starting Dean Lowry, keke, and Lancaster on rotation on the DL, with trash ILBS including Ty summers and bj Goodson

And then have Kevin king and will Redmond as starting on your back end to defend the back end.

It’s quite the riddle.

He did fine

I don't accept this excuse because he didn't simply have weak players, he not only failed to try to cover the weaknesses, he PLAYED INTO their weaknesses.

Trying to 2-gap with guys like Lowry and Keke was stupid. If they're bad against the run, why are you playing them like big space-eaters?

He also famously put King on an island against a speedster. He tried to make Josh Jackson a slot corner in a man scheme, when the guy is clearly a boundary corner in a zone scheme, which probably ruined him.

Then he decided not to play Oren Burks at all when we traded up for him, probably on his input, and he looked good in preseason, and was a raw athletic guy who needed all the reps/experience he could get. We took the opposite approach with Quay and ot has given him valuable experience to grow/improvement as a player.

Fans are letting theirr correct ire over Barry cause us to wrongly think that Barry was not so bad. No, he was as bad, if not worse. It was the same crap (sacrifice everything to stop the pass... and fail to do even that).

And his defenses were to blame for the seasons going down the toilet. Barry's defenses were not to blame for our last two bad seasons.

I just think it was frustrating to watch some of Mike pettines defenses, but the end result was fine.

I don’t think he did good, but I also don’t think he did bad…consider the players above I’ve mentioned and you’ve mentioned.

I mean 2019 we were 9th in points allowed and in 2020 we were 13th in points allowed and 9th in total yards given up.

Considering the massive holes in personnel on the defense, I don’t think that’s too bad.

Is it good enough to win a Super Bowl? Probably not. But I would say the personnel was probably not good enough to win a Super Bowl either imo.

Just to add to my position that Pettine was 1) better than Barry 2) not worth firing if Barry is who you pick to replace and 3) did a decent job considering the talent he had. Here are the statistics of each of their 3 years:

Pettine:
2018 total yards rank: 18 Points allowed rank: 22
2019 total yards rank: 18 Points allowed rank: 9
2020 total yards rank: 9 Points allowed rank: 13

Barry
2021 total yards rank: 14 Points allowed rank: 9
2022 total yards rank: 18 Points allowed rank 17
2023 total yards rank: 23 Points allowed rank: 17

What I hope these stats show is that they both played bend but don’t break, but after year one..Pettine was much better at not breaking, with much worse players

[Pckfn23]

[Scott4Pack]

Yes, Joe is worse than Pettine (and Capers). In the past three years, I can't count how often we left an A gap wide open on 3rd/4th and short. Easy first down for the opposition. In the past three years, I can't count how much more often our coaches say in public that they "should've coached it better."

These are only two of the points that tell me that Barry has no business as DC. And I'm still not certain how liable MLF is for those.

[Half Empty]

Yes, Joe is worse than Pettine (and Capers). In the past three years, I can't count how often we left an A gap wide open on 3rd/4th and short. Easy first down for the opposition. In the past three years, I can't count how much more often our coaches say in public that they "should've coached it better."

These are only two of the points that tell me that Barry has no business as DC. And I'm still not certain how liable MLF is for those.

Maybe not sure about 'those', but he is totally responsible for Barry

[texas]

Dom was bad. Pettine was bad. Barry is bad.

Dom had 1 great year. Pettine's defenses had moments where they looked like they were solid and about to take the next step (but never did). Barry the same thing.

All deserve to be fired. Dom deserved it way earlier than he was fired, the other 2 (assuming Barry is out this season) are about where they should be.

The last good DC we had was Jim Bates, but even in his case, he was only here for 1 year, and if you would have asked any of us in February 2011 about Dom, we would have said we had a real superstar at DC then too.

[Trudge]

Dom was bad. Pettine was bad. Barry is bad.

Dom had 1 great year. Pettine's defenses had moments where they looked like they were solid and about to take the next step (but never did). Barry the same thing.

All deserve to be fired. Dom deserved it way earlier than he was fired, the other 2 (assuming Barry is out this season) are about where they should be.

The last good DC we had was Jim Bates, but even in his case, he was only here for 1 year, and if you would have asked any of us in February 2011 about Dom, we would have said we had a real superstar at DC then too.

Bates was terrible. The Ravens were coming to town, straight off there Super Bowl and they got crushed. Then the Packers defense &%$@ the bed for the last 15 games of the year. Guy was awful.

[texas]

Dom was bad. Pettine was bad. Barry is bad.

Dom had 1 great year. Pettine's defenses had moments where they looked like they were solid and about to take the next step (but never did). Barry the same thing.

All deserve to be fired. Dom deserved it way earlier than he was fired, the other 2 (assuming Barry is out this season) are about where they should be.

The last good DC we had was Jim Bates, but even in his case, he was only here for 1 year, and if you would have asked any of us in February 2011 about Dom, we would have said we had a real superstar at DC then too.

Bates was terrible. The Ravens were coming to town, straight off there Super Bowl and they got crushed. Then the Packers defense &%$@ the bed for the last 15 games of the year. Guy was awful.

I remember thinking he was good at the time, but my memory is not that strong regarding this opinion (unlike other things that I definitely remember). So I could be wrong on this one.

[Crazylegs Starks]

Dom was bad. Pettine was bad. Barry is bad.

Dom had 1 great year. Pettine's defenses had moments where they looked like they were solid and about to take the next step (but never did). Barry the same thing.

All deserve to be fired. Dom deserved it way earlier than he was fired, the other 2 (assuming Barry is out this season) are about where they should be.

The last good DC we had was Jim Bates, but even in his case, he was only here for 1 year, and if you would have asked any of us in February 2011 about Dom, we would have said we had a real superstar at DC then too.

Bates was terrible. The Ravens were coming to town, straight off there Super Bowl and they got crushed. Then the Packers defense &%$@ the bed for the last 15 games of the year. Guy was awful.

I remember thinking he was good at the time, but my memory is not that strong regarding this opinion (unlike other things that I definitely remember). So I could be wrong on this one.

As I recall, Bates was pretty well thought of. In fact, McCarthy tried to get him to stay for 2006, but Bates was butt-hurt he got passed over for HC.

I think long-term his scheme was too vanilla, and seeing what we got with his disciple Bob Sanders, well...

[TheSkeptic]

I am more concerned about the future than the past.

it is not that tough a decision. Barry is a really really bad DC. He knows that a passive bend-don't-break D is not working yet he uses it anyway and has lost the support of the veterans, many of whom are as good as gone. Except for Rasul who is already gone.

This year was supposed to be a preparation year for a SB run next season. Instead it looks like the entire D needs to be rebuilt because they refuse to do more than go through the motions for Barry. Nobody is having fun and nobody is giving 100%. There is no possible excuse for Barry still being in GB. And yet he is. And Rasul is not. And soon Alexander and Campbell and Nixon and Savage are gone and likely will likely be successful someplace else. Followed by Clark and Stokes in 2025.

Hell of a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.