Green Bay Packers @ New Orleans Saints GDT - 9/27 - 7:20 CST

[go pak go]

Rewatched a few plays. Here is what I noticed on defense and how the Saints scored.

1. Kamara takes advantage of Z not having edge contain and Amos slipping. Should have been a 15 yard play but because Amos slips it's 50 plus. Kamara gets a TD on Amos a play or two later.

7 points.

2. 3rd and 15 - Brees dumps it down to Kamara as there is nothing there. Will Redmond makes a horrendous open field play by over committing too early and missing. If you're going to commit...you better hit it and he didn't. At the very least, if just runs at Kamara and makes him dance, help is on the way and the Saints have to punt the ball. Saints get a FG.

10 points.

3. 2 minutes left in the 2nd quarter. Keke gets a huge sack on 1st down. It is 2nd and 17 and the Saints do a quick dump off pass to Kamara. Flag on the play for defensive holding on #55. We all wondered why it was called and NBC shows nothing on it. Z was the interior rusher. He was never near a receiver. No other Packer held. Aboslute horrible call that bails out a set of downs. Saints get TD where Redmond had a shot at stopping the play.

17 points.

And there is your first half.

At halftime yesterday I said we were the better team and I meant it. The Saints only scored on tremendous blunders, trip ups, horrible tackling by our worst player and a bull crap penalty.

[YoHoChecko]

3. 2 minutes left in the 2nd quarter. Keke gets a huge sack on 1st down. It is 2nd and 17 and the Saints do a quick dump off pass to Kamara. Flag on the play for defensive holding on #55. We all wondered why it was called and NBC shows nothing on it. Z was the interior rusher. He was never near a receiver. No other Packer held. Aboslute horrible call that bails out a set of downs. Saints get TD where Redmond had a shot at stopping the play.

I think it was one of those rare ones where he held an OLIneman in order to prevent him from switching for a stunt or releasing to go block for the screen. That's a real penalty, but it's weird that it has the same name as the penalty associated with the secondary.

[paco]

DOWN
Lancaster
Lowry
Amos
Savage
Kirksey - Not as down on him as many, but probably more upside with Summers and Burks.
Smiths - Just a little down. Expected a bit more from them to this point, even with tough Saints matchup.

Add Will Redmond to the DOWN list or make him a WAY DOWN list.

I cannot understand why he played ahead of Greene. It's hard to imagine any NFL caliber player having been a downgrade when subbed in for last night's performance. Whenever something good happened for the Saints, #25 was awfully nearby... or far away on the ground where the Saints used to be

I meant too, just forgot I guess. I didn't have high expectations for him, but jeez he's bad. Green needs to get more snaps. Frankly I'd rather just cut him and bring Tramon back.

[go pak go]

3. 2 minutes left in the 2nd quarter. Keke gets a huge sack on 1st down. It is 2nd and 17 and the Saints do a quick dump off pass to Kamara. Flag on the play for defensive holding on #55. We all wondered why it was called and NBC shows nothing on it. Z was the interior rusher. He was never near a receiver. No other Packer held. Aboslute horrible call that bails out a set of downs. Saints get TD where Redmond had a shot at stopping the play.

I think it was one of those rare ones where he held an OLIneman in order to prevent him from switching for a stunt or releasing to go block for the screen. That's a real penalty, but it's weird that it has the same name as the penalty associated with the secondary.

I see how it could be a penalty but man it is ticky tack and it really no impact on the play.

[Drj820]

DOWN
Lancaster
Lowry
Amos
Savage
Kirksey - Not as down on him as many, but probably more upside with Summers and Burks.
Smiths - Just a little down. Expected a bit more from them to this point, even with tough Saints matchup.

Add Will Redmond to the DOWN list or make him a WAY DOWN list.

I cannot understand why he played ahead of Greene. It's hard to imagine any NFL caliber player having been a downgrade when subbed in for last night's performance. Whenever something good happened for the Saints, #25 was awfully nearby... or far away on the ground where the Saints used to be

I meant too, just forgot I guess. I didn't have high expectations for him, but jeez he's bad. Green needs to get more snaps. Frankly I'd rather just cut him and bring Tramon back.

I love that plan. I would love to have Tramon back on this team. I enjoyed your list. I would add one name that I don’t think you on there:

Kevin King (UP)

He’s tackled well, played well, and not been picked on at all. Looks like a guy trying to get paid. Good for him.

[YoHoChecko]

I meant too, just forgot I guess. I didn't have high expectations for him, but jeez he's bad. Green needs to get more snaps. Frankly I'd rather just cut him and bring Tramon back.

I would cut him and not bring Tramon back. When you're a liability without longer-term upside, you go. The replacement might be a liability, also, but if so, you're not worse off. If not, you're better.

He played 46% of the D snaps in week 1, 12% in week 2, and 52% in week 3
Raven Greene played in 26% of the snaps in week 2, and then only 10% (and late, from what I saw) yesterday.

[Yoop]

we got a few sacks, what we've been failing to get is consistent pressure, which I consider more important then sacks in the overall ability to create turnovers and the destruction of a offenses game plan

I couldn't agree more. The lack of pressure is noticeable and the lack of impact from our Smith boys is the biggest change from last year.

I mean there is no pressure. They are practicaly invisible out there and i don't know if it's because of Clark being out or what. But they are invisible and when your top paid boys don't show up....your unit will struggle. Period.

well with the absence of Clark we use Z inside more, plus we play a ton of zone, which means your edge rushers have to first make sure it's not a run play before they rush, everyone hates off man, but imho it is the best coverage there is, not only does it free the edge rushers to just RUSH, it also allows the CB to get a quick read on the QB, if it's a run, they move up to contain the edge.

Clark is a huge loss, getting Z back out to the edge full time will help, same with Gary, plus Clark brings a lot of inside pressure, I think the pass rush will improve once that happens

[German_Panzer]

Clark is a huge loss

Maybe we should look for another impact DT via trade (to complement Clark or to be our plan B)? First, you can't have enough of them, secondly, if we look like the real deal the next couple of weeks it might be worth to consider "going all in, to win". TT wouldn't have done it, but Gute? Would it make sense somehow?

[Drj820]

Not really speaking on weeks 1 and 2, but I don’t think lack of pressure is something to be too concerned about in week 3.

1) saints have two great OTs
2) Brees gets the ball out fast, there was a lot of times Preston was moving his guy back and Brees would just dump it off in time like a good vet should.
3) with no Kenny lots of resources were spent bringing in fire power to the middles...ie: Whats been discussed with Z.
4) We caused a fumble behind the LOS and got 2 sacks on Brees. Not awful considering how fast he wants to get the ball out, instead of trying to wait and take deep shots all day.

[German_Panzer]

Brees. Not awful considering how fast he wants to get the ball out

Brees'a arm is aging pretty fast. You could see more than a couple of longer throws he looked at but canceled. IMO he's entering this phase where a defense basically can abandon the deep threat like with Peyton in his last season. That helped us.

[Yoop]

Not really speaking on weeks 1 and 2, but I don’t think lack of pressure is something to be too concerned about in week 3.

1) saints have two great OTs
2) Brees gets the ball out fast, there was a lot of times Preston was moving his guy back and Brees would just dump it off in time like a good vet should.
3) with no Kenny lots of resources were spent bringing in fire power to the middles...ie: Whats been discussed with Z.
4) We caused a fumble behind the LOS and got 2 sacks on Brees. Not awful considering how fast he wants to get the ball out, instead of trying to wait and take deep shots all day.

Preston brings meaning to the term "Steady Eddie" he had about 70 cumulatives last year, I expect it'll be about the same this years, plus he drops in a zone a lot, to me Z has been a bit of a slow starter, plus moving him inside limits what he does best, he gets clogged up, he's a edge rusher

[YoHoChecko]

Clark is a huge loss

Maybe we should look for another impact DT via trade (to complement Clark or to be our plan B)? First, you can't have enough of them, secondly, if we look like the real deal the next couple of weeks it might be worth to consider "going all in, to win". TT wouldn't have done it, but Gute? Would it make sense somehow?

So who would be likely targets/contenders....

maybe a guy in the last year of his deal on a non-contending team that knows that can't/aren't going to pay him next year.

My first target might be Steve McLendon, a 34-year old DT for the Jets who was once the Steelers' NT. We offered him a deal on a restricted FA contract but the Steelers kept him, if I recall correctly. He's old, but was effective against the run last year. Signed a 1-year contract with the Jets and would cost less than $3 million. I would imagine that the trade compensation there would be almost nothing.

Across town, Dalvin Tomlinson is much younger, but I don't see any reason why the Giants would ship him out without trying to retain him .

Not many teams are in "sell" mode after only 3 weeks, though.

[BSA]

So who would be likely targets/contenders....

maybe a guy in the last year of his deal on a non-contending team that knows that can't/aren't going to pay him next year.

I was looking at Kawann Short in Carolina...but then he injured his foot. Not sure how bad, but bad feet are bad news for 300 lb DL
Here's a league wide list of DTs by team

https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchartpos/DT

[lupedafiasco]

So to be clear the holding on Z Smith was on his pass rush. It wasnt illegal contact in coverage. He used a pull rush move grabbing the Saints linemans jersey to get his momentum forward and kind of sling shotting himself around him while sending the Saints lineman to the ground. Still a little ticky tacky but to the letter of the law it was a good call.

[go pak go]

Jaguars waived DT Timmy Jernigan today.

[Pugger]

Clark is a huge loss

Maybe we should look for another impact DT via trade (to complement Clark or to be our plan B)? First, you can't have enough of them, secondly, if we look like the real deal the next couple of weeks it might be worth to consider "going all in, to win". TT wouldn't have done it, but Gute? Would it make sense somehow?

Unfortunately the price for another good DL might be too steep. What would we have to give up to make it happen?

[Yoop]

Not really speaking on weeks 1 and 2, but I don’t think lack of pressure is something to be too concerned about in week 3.

1) saints have two great OTs
2) Brees gets the ball out fast, there was a lot of times Preston was moving his guy back and Brees would just dump it off in time like a good vet should.
3) with no Kenny lots of resources were spent bringing in fire power to the middles...ie: Whats been discussed with Z.
4) We caused a fumble behind the LOS and got 2 sacks on Brees. Not awful considering how fast he wants to get the ball out, instead of trying to wait and take deep shots all day.

Preston brings meaning to the term "Steady Eddie" he had about 70 cumulatives last year, I expect it'll be about the same this years, plus he drops in a zone a lot, to me Z has been a slower starter.

wow was I off with this, Preston looks like he gets pressure, but according to this guy he doesn't get much, averaging a pressure per game wont cut it.

heres some of this guys opinions.

OLB Preston Smith: At what point do the Packers start getting concerned about their veteran edge rusher? Smith just isn’t impacting the game as a pass-rusher to start 2020. He’s also dropping into coverage more and looking shaky in space. Terron Armstead had little trouble with him on Sunday night, although Smith was involved in a third-down stop of Taysom Hill. Through three games, Smith has exactly three total pressures.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/studs-duds ... 14681.html

[BF004]

[lupedafiasco]

After checking PFF grades and going back over the game I don’t see how the Packers ever go back to Kirksey even if he comes back from injury. He’s really struggling. Summers just needs to get better at tackling. He’s always in position he just fails to finish. Burks I didn’t think was awful when he was inside. Not sure why they had him on the edge sometimes. And if they get Martin back after the raving that came from the beat boys I think we will be fine inside. But you can’t go back to Kirksey at this point.

[NCF]

After checking PFF grades and going back over the game I don’t see how the Packers ever go back to Kirksey even if he comes back from injury. He’s really struggling. Summers just needs to get better at tackling. He’s always in position he just fails to finish. Burks I didn’t think was awful when he was inside. Not sure why they had him on the edge sometimes. And if they get Martin back after the raving that came from the beat boys I think we will be fine inside. But you can’t go back to Kirksey at this point.

Yeah, he has been super disappointing through three weeks, that is for sure. I just can't, in any world, believe that Ty Summers is the answer and an upgrade.