Green Bay Packers @ New Orleans Saints GDT - 9/27 - 7:20 CST

[Yoop]

could it be that Redmond looks the best in practice, but it doesn't transfer to the games?

we play a ton of zone because some of our positional players suck in man, both those plays where zone if memory serves, and we couldn't hide Redmond.

If so, I think we've seen enough now.

I'd cut the scrub, but he plays a ton of ST so I guess he can stick around.

I hated him on the field last year and I hate him on the field this year. Pure liability. Absolutely below replacement level play. You could pick up a free agent off the street and expect similar. No reason to keep the guy around. I only even had him earning a roster spot because some experience in the covid year seemed nicer than relying on Scott

thanks, I tend to agree with you, but obviously the coaches see something they like over the others.

[go pak go]

Go Packers.

[YoHoChecko]

Can we please not just bicker about personal attacks because people aren't fact-checking themselves as carefully as you'd like on the internet?

That kind of conversation adds NOTHING to this forum. If someone says something that is factually incorrect, just include in your post that they are factually incorrect and state the truth. Arguing over who said what before whom and why and where the source came from isn't interesting to anyone, and it isn't welcoming to anyone new.

[go pak go]

could it be that Redmond looks the best in practice, but it doesn't transfer to the games?

we play a ton of zone because some of our positional players suck in man, both those plays where zone if memory serves, and we couldn't hide Redmond.

If so, I think we've seen enough now.

I'd cut the scrub, but he plays a ton of ST so I guess he can stick around.

I hated him on the field last year and I hate him on the field this year. Pure liability. Absolutely below replacement level play. You could pick up a free agent off the street and expect similar. No reason to keep the guy around. I only even had him earning a roster spot because some experience in the covid year seemed nicer than relying on Scott

thanks, I tend to agree with you, but obviously the coaches see something they like over the others.

And I think they are dead wrong. I have been begging for the Packers to replace Will Redmond since the Eagles game in 2019. He has always been the clear liability on this defense. It was so refreshing in 2019 when they finally started playing Sullivan in Redmond's place.

Redmond had a good game last week vs Detroit but other than that, this dude is far and away the worst player on this defense week in and week out. He is a liability and we need to find an alternative to him.

The only reason our posts aren't angrier about it this year is because Rodgers is playing near the best ball of his life.

But this to me is important that we get this figured out because the teams we lose to are the teams who have good RBs who make plays. And we are going to run into these teams in January and hopefully February. If we don't have a plan against this...we are once again going to come up short.

[go pak go]

Can we please not just bicker about personal attacks because people aren't fact-checking themselves as carefully as you'd like on the internet?

That kind of conversation adds NOTHING to this forum. If someone says something that is factually incorrect, just include in your post that they are factually incorrect and state the truth. Arguing over who said what before whom and why and where the source came from isn't interesting to anyone, and it isn't welcoming to anyone new.

Noted.

[BF004]

What bothers me is how much we seem to rely on this Ibraham Campbell, Raven Green, Will Redmond role, clearly a spot they want the guy to get 50+ % of snaps, yet they never do anything to go out and invest in the position.

Not calling for them to go out and get Minkah Fitzpatrick, even though he fill that snap so perfectly and would change the whole D, but even just like a 4th-5th round pick one time maybe?

Maybe get someone in that 3-5 million FA range.

I mean, just try something other than throwing guys in there who were not good enough to be drafted.

[YoHoChecko]

What bothers me is how much we seem to rely on this Ibraham Campbell, Raven Green, Will Redmond role, clearly a spot they want the guy to get 50+ % of snaps, yet they never do anything to go out and invest in the position.

Not calling for them to go out and get Minkah Fitzpatrick, even though he fill that snap so perfectly and would change the whole D, but even just like a 4th-5th round pick one time maybe?

Maybe get someone in that 3-5 million FA range.

I mean, just try something other than throwing guys in there who were not good enough to be drafted.

To be fair, Campbell was drafted

But an excellent point that if you're going to play a 3rd safety/hybrid LB on most snaps, you should actually fill the position.

[go pak go]

What bothers me is how much we seem to rely on this Ibraham Campbell, Raven Green, Will Redmond role, clearly a spot they want the guy to get 50+ % of snaps, yet they never do anything to go out and invest in the position.

Not calling for them to go out and get Minkah Fitzpatrick, even though he fill that snap so perfectly and would change the whole D, but even just like a 4th-5th round pick one time maybe?

Maybe get someone in that 3-5 million FA range.

I mean, just try something other than throwing guys in there who were not good enough to be drafted.

To be fair, Campbell was drafted

But an excellent point that if you're going to play a 3rd safety/hybrid LB on most snaps, you should actually fill the position.

Absolutely. It is why I kept looking so hard for that spot in last year's draft. I really liked that kid from Maryland for this role.

Will Redmond was also a 3rd round pick by the coveted 49ers.

[Yoop]

If so, I think we've seen enough now.

I'd cut the scrub, but he plays a ton of ST so I guess he can stick around.

I hated him on the field last year and I hate him on the field this year. Pure liability. Absolutely below replacement level play. You could pick up a free agent off the street and expect similar. No reason to keep the guy around. I only even had him earning a roster spot because some experience in the covid year seemed nicer than relying on Scott

thanks, I tend to agree with you, but obviously the coaches see something they like over the others.

And I think they are dead wrong. I have been begging for the Packers to replace Will Redmond since the Eagles game in 2019. He has always been the clear liability on this defense. It was so refreshing in 2019 when they finally started playing Sullivan in Redmond's place.

Redmond had a good game last week vs Detroit but other than that, this dude is far and away the worst player on this defense week in and week out. He is a liability and we need to find an alternative to him.

The only reason our posts aren't angrier about it this year is because Rodgers is playing near the best ball of his life.

But this to me is important that we get this figured out because the teams we lose to are the teams who have good RBs who make plays. And we are going to run into these teams in January and hopefully February. If we don't have a plan against this...we are once again going to come up short.

should we fire the coaches?

course not, the problem is NONE of these guys has stepped up and taken the job from the others, each do one or two things better then the rest, but none are complete package players.

these are rarely coaching issues, but rather just lack of talent, and as I have said for years, you can't hide weak defensive positions, fans all think with some coaching changes/adjustments ya can turn a mariginal player into a player that wont be a weakness, do you realize how convoluted that is, the opposing players, coaches are far to smart for stuff like that, they will quickly figure out how to re scheme and go after him.

sure I want better players, but this is it for this season, all we can hope for is that 1 or 2 take a leap.

[NCF]

these are rarely coaching issues, but rather just lack of talent, and as I have said for years, you can't hide weak defensive positions, fans all think with some coaching changes/adjustments ya can turn a mariginal player into a player that wont be a weakness, do you realize how convoluted that is, the opposing players, coaches are far to smart for stuff like that, they will quickly figure out how to re scheme and go after him.

I don't agree with you and I don't think anyone else does, either, on this specific point. Tell me who your #1 defense is in the NFL today. I will point out their weak links... you can tell me whether you agree with those or not, but then, you tell me why they are able to make it work with weak links. There is just not a team out there that has 11 guys on defense that they are perfectly happy with.

[Yoop]

these are rarely coaching issues, but rather just lack of talent, and as I have said for years, you can't hide weak defensive positions, fans all think with some coaching changes/adjustments ya can turn a mariginal player into a player that wont be a weakness, do you realize how convoluted that is, the opposing players, coaches are far to smart for stuff like that, they will quickly figure out how to re scheme and go after him.

I don't agree with you and I don't think anyone else does, either, on this specific point. Tell me who your #1 defense is in the NFL today. I will point out their weak links... you can tell me whether you agree with those or not, but then, you tell me why they are able to make it work with weak links. There is just not a team out there that has 11 guys on defense that they are perfectly happy with.

and all those defenses struggle just like we do.

I'am not going to go and look for all these weak players on different teams NCF, sure they have them, but they all get exposed too.

we watched Capers try almost every concept and adjustment, and we now see Pettine doing the same thing, we have went years and years with weak ILB play because we either havn't been able to find guys in the draft, or unwilling to spend a high pick on one, same with UFA, and for all these years that position has been the acheles heel of our defense, year after year we've seen QB's carve up our underneath coverage, actually rip our under belly wide open, the only real adjustment needed is a properly fitted radiator cap. (stud ILB)

Ted spent a 2nd round pick on Josh Jones, yet due to lack of patience we let him walk, he's now acting like a stud somewhere else.

look most of my football knowledge is old school, but this game hasn't changed that much, it's still about blocking and tackling, and being assignment sure, after that it mostly comes down to talent, sure some coaches are better then others, but there all really good, or shortly they are no longer NFL coaches, .

haaaa, not often that people here agree with me NCF,I wish they did, but I don't come here for that, I say what I think, obvious talent issues are often blamed on poor coaching, most fans think they know more then coaches, myself included, we should all run down to 1265 and turn in our coaching resume's,

[Crazylegs Starks]

What bothers me is how much we seem to rely on this Ibraham Campbell, Raven Green, Will Redmond role, clearly a spot they want the guy to get 50+ % of snaps, yet they never do anything to go out and invest in the position.

Not calling for them to go out and get Minkah Fitzpatrick, even though he fill that snap so perfectly and would change the whole D, but even just like a 4th-5th round pick one time maybe?

Maybe get someone in that 3-5 million FA range.

I mean, just try something other than throwing guys in there who were not good enough to be drafted.

To be fair, Campbell was drafted

But an excellent point that if you're going to play a 3rd safety/hybrid LB on most snaps, you should actually fill the position.

Absolutely. It is why I kept looking so hard for that spot in last year's draft. I really liked that kid from Maryland for this role.

Will Redmond was also a 3rd round pick by the coveted 49ers.

If we had had a preseason, I wonder if Scott would've been tried in that role. It seems like he would have the size to do it, but of course, with rookies play recognition & consistency are the big issues. Could he be any worse than Redmond though?

[NCF]

[kyle.mccarroll]

I just miss the old Pettine that, for some reason, disappeared around October of last year. Before that, we were running exotic blitz packages and essentially scheming up free rushers (exactly what MLF is doing on the offensive side) but for some reason around the KC game, he just stopped. Why?

It's just so frustrating to watch us sit back in passive, reactionary defense. Like everyone has mentioned, why are we just letting Kamara run wild all night? That's just so stupid. The Saints clearly came out and were determined to not get beat by Jones, but Rodgers is playing like a god right now and beat them anyways. And If that happens, you have to just tip your hat. But everyone and their mama knew Kamara was going to be fed the ball, and I just don't feel that we were prepared at all to not let their best player beat us up and down the field. I mean, the guy had 13 catches! I get it, the players have to make plays, but you are allowed to help them out a bit too.

Playing defense is already so hard in the NFL. It's almost impossible if you do nothing at all to dictate things.

If I remember correctly, MLF basically sprinted to the locker room at halftime of the Lions game and chewed out the defense. And they came out fired up and responded in the second half. Why is this something that our offensive minded HC needs to do?

[German_Panzer]

I just miss the old Pettine that, for some reason, disappeared around October of last year. Before that, we were running exotic blitz packages and essentially scheming up free rushers (exactly what MLF is doing on the offensive side) but for some reason around the KC game, he just stopped. Why?

Too much work and complexity (= higher risk for severe mistakes) for too little effect? (He actually mentioned that line of thinking last season)
Shifting gears to be unpredictable and saving some for the games that really matter (Playoffs)?

[Yoop]

we didn't have a TC, and as much as virtual reality is close to impersonating reality it sure as &%$@ doesn't come close to replacing it, imo thats what a lot of the issues are with this defense, ya can't tele prompt all the nuances that comprise the out come of live physical interaction, so I think we see that when Redmond fails attack a play, decisions come slower when ya have trouble breaking down what a offense is telling you with pre snaps and such.

defense is reactive at it's core, first it has to diagnose just what the offenses is going to attack with, minus TC it's a process in progress at this stage for sure, right now we are trying to find the best combination at ILB 2 and trying to cover for the loss of Clark with both pass rush and run defense, I think we have to give this stuff another game or two to improve itself as these players also get healthy, cripes why does everyone always want to hang a coach, people think cause the offense is ticking then the D should be too, why? there are so many variables involved, and minus TC creates even more issues.

[lupedafiasco]

Can we please not just bicker about personal attacks because people aren't fact-checking themselves as carefully as you'd like on the internet?

That kind of conversation adds NOTHING to this forum. If someone says something that is factually incorrect, just include in your post that they are factually incorrect and state the truth. Arguing over who said what before whom and why and where the source came from isn't interesting to anyone, and it isn't welcoming to anyone new.

@pckfn23

[Pckfn23]

Can we please not just bicker about personal attacks because people aren't fact-checking themselves as carefully as you'd like on the internet?

That kind of conversation adds NOTHING to this forum. If someone says something that is factually incorrect, just include in your post that they are factually incorrect and state the truth. Arguing over who said what before whom and why and where the source came from isn't interesting to anyone, and it isn't welcoming to anyone new.

@pckfn23

[mention]lupedafiasco[/mention] yes?

[Drj820]

Good point [mention]YoHoChecko[/mention] completely agree. People have left due to the exact scenario we just saw above, would love to see it nipped in the bud permanently.


As for Pettine, we still stand at 13-3 and then 3-0 over the last 2 seasons. We got completely destroyed by 1 team in 2 games and then lost to the eagles pretty much due to poor d.

Several times last year we would bend and bend, then either force a fg or get the turnover, or big sack near our red zone. It’s a frustrating way to live as a viewer giving up first down after first down as a Kyle Allen nickels and dimes us down the field (panthers game last year).

But either due to analytics, strategy, best fit for our personnel, lack of ILB depth and range?, the way the offense can score?...basically idk.

But it seems Pettine has intentionally chosen to allow underneath stuff, allow a kamara to get the dump off pass, etc as long as we don’t give up a play over the top for a quick 6. As long as we continuously make an offense work for their TD.

Pettine is either betting we will get strong in the red zone when the field shrinks, doing what he can given the personnel (I don’t buy that considering he told us he was asked what he needed to make it all work), or this IS just his style now.

I guess my long point is that the way we play d has become his choice. We give up lots of first downs because that’s what he chooses to allow. None of the big plays given up against the saints were due to a gambling scheme, they were all due to poor tackling. And as frustrating as it is to watch, only 3 times in the last 2 seasons has the style failed to work in the end.

I guess it will be up to Lafleur soon as to whether he is content with the passive style himself.

[Pckfn23]

I do not believe we played like this, last year. We were more aggressive last year and did not play bend, but do not break like we have seen under other DCs and like we saw last game.

Last year we were 11th in first downs given up, 19th in yards, 9th in points, 22nd in yards per play, 18th in 3 and outs, 17th in forcing punts, 6th in TOs per drive, 16th in yards per drive. We were also 25th in explosive pass plays given up and surprisingly 13th in explosive run plays given up. 10th in sacks. 4th in red zone points.

We rushed the passer well, took the ball away well, which led not giving up many points. However, we did get burnt a lot. We played zone 51% of the time in 2019. I can't say for sure, but I think we have been playing more, so far in 2020.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2019-nfl-s ... y-rankings
https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/pass ... -def-.html
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... 19/opp.htm
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats ... tsdef/2019

We are definitely missing Clark and not most of all from run stopping perspective. We are not getting that consistent push up the middle that he provided.

I am still dumbfounded why we never changed the gameplan the entire game to stop Kamara. There were some good things in that game, defensively. Summers looked good. Burks finally looked like he might be able to play. Keke stepped up. Alexander was a man. It was just kind of like PTSD and watching Kamara kill us like the 49ers running game did, and we didn't adjust.