Panthers @ Packers GDT - Saturday 12/19 7:25 PM CST

[BF004]

Why is everyone so combative today, lol.

I said I want the packers to get to top 10 scoring d if possible. So wouldn’t it make sense when bringing up last years super bowl champs to mention their scoring D? I never even mentioned yards.

I am aware there are better measures than scoring D. Just the one I said.

I am aware some teams have won without elite defenses, never suggested it. I am also aware many teams win lots of regular season games with elite offenses and average defenses.

I don’t know why we are arguing about this

[YoHoChecko]

You said this, exactly; I replied that this very thing happened last year. And I used credible metrics.

We can be considered by the most credible of metrics to be an average defense.

Average defenses can win championships, but they are few and far between.

[BF004]

What did I say that was wrong?

Few and far between.

[BF004]

I don’t know, this forum wasn’t fun today, everyone so sensitive and more concerned with trying to prove others wrong than beneficial dialogue. Think I need a day or two off here.

[Cdragon]

I'd want to see the D stop their opening drive. Limit the long drives. Get AR back on the field asap.

At this point I don't care what our numbers are since you can defy the numbers and make a defensive run in the playoffs like the Colts did in 06.

[go pak go]

But no one is expecting us to have a good defense compared to 2019, or 1996, or 1935, we want a good defense relative to our peers this year.

We can be considered by the most credible of metrics to be an average defense.

Average defenses can win championships, but they are few and far between.


We shall see if in this unprecedented year if having the best offense in a year of good offenses, if that will be enough.

We have a below average offense, then what is very sneakily an elite offense, followed by one of the worst offenses in the league on our schedule next.


I would really like to see that scoring average somehow get in the top 10 before playoff football starts, because history tells us that really does matter.

Oh my gosh THANK YOU!!!

I had a response to yoop and deleted it because I don't want another useless fight take over a forum.

But this is exactly what I want.

I am so sick of the "all defenses are struggling this year" Like that isn't how comparisons to other teams work. Yes giving up 24 points is the new 21 points benchmark. But there are still 15 teams who are doing better than us in points allowed.

I do think we have a shot to get in the top 7 or so in total yards and top 10 in pass and rush yards.

I think getting in the top 10 in points allowed is going to be a huge hurdle.

come on now, you started out wanting a top 5 defense, then dropped it to top 10 or 7, and your pissed off at me because I'd rather deal with reality, we are what??? 28th in the league on 3rd and short, and can't defend our interior zones, thats whats really going on.

the defenses are struggling this year is also true, just because you don't like it doesn't change that, as others have said it's something we can live with as long as we can do what we've been doing forever, out scoring opponents.
wtf.

1. I wanted a top 5 defense in August. BREAKING NEWS. I want a Top 1 defense in 2021. Hell let's make 2022 and every year after!

2. I have not said anything about top 5 defense once it was obvious we would not be it. I think we have the talent to be close but that is also why I want to move on from Pettine and again look at ILB this offfseason.

3. I don't think you understand what comparative analysis means. Yes I know all defenses are struggling. I would say as a whole the average points allowed is up at least 3 points over last year. But that has zero impact when we compare our defense to other defenses in the league because they are all going through the same problems we are. It also means our offensive production is enjoying 2020 as well because offense is higher than it has been in years past. It's like comparing nominal dollars and real dollars in economics to normalize data for better analysis. I want to look at real dollars and not nominal. I get that nominally defenses are doing worse. I never said I didn't like it. I said I don't need to be reminded of it and that's why our defense being 10th to 15th isn't that bad....a 10th to 15th place defense is a 10th to 15th place defense.

4. Absolutely. Out score em Rodgers. Go get that ring.

[go pak go]

7th scoring D....


Not many will argue our defense is as good this year as KC was last year.

You said average defense.

KC had an average defense last year.

17th in yards
14th in DVOA

Scoring has the drawback of being heavily impacted by offense and STs, just like our pick 6s and punt returns make us a worse scoring defense this year.

The Chiefs are winning games with an average defense and an overwhelming offense and so are we.

This is the kind of stuff that gives me hope.

[go pak go]

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[Pugger]

But no one is expecting us to have a good defense compared to 2019, or 1996, or 1935, we want a good defense relative to our peers this year.

We can be considered by the most credible of metrics to be an average defense.

Average defenses can win championships, but they are few and far between.


We shall see if in this unprecedented year if having the best offense in a year of good offenses, if that will be enough.

We have a below average offense, then what is very sneakily an elite offense, followed by one of the worst offenses in the league on our schedule next.


I would really like to see that scoring average somehow get in the top 10 before playoff football starts, because history tells us that really does matter.

Oh my gosh THANK YOU!!!

I had a response to yoop and deleted it because I don't want another useless fight take over a forum.

But this is exactly what I want.

I am so sick of the "all defenses are struggling this year" Like that isn't how comparisons to other teams work. Yes giving up 24 points is the new 21 points benchmark. But there are still 15 teams who are doing better than us in points allowed.

I do think we have a shot to get in the top 7 or so in total yards and top 10 in pass and rush yards.

I think getting in the top 10 in points allowed is going to be a huge hurdle.

Another point we forget is the league is slanted towards offense. The owners want scoring because they feel scoring will bring in more viewers than defensive struggles. It is also why QBs are so valuable and why they win the most individual awards every year (MVP, OPOY, etc.).

[go pak go]

But no one is expecting us to have a good defense compared to 2019, or 1996, or 1935, we want a good defense relative to our peers this year.

We can be considered by the most credible of metrics to be an average defense.

Average defenses can win championships, but they are few and far between.


We shall see if in this unprecedented year if having the best offense in a year of good offenses, if that will be enough.

We have a below average offense, then what is very sneakily an elite offense, followed by one of the worst offenses in the league on our schedule next.


I would really like to see that scoring average somehow get in the top 10 before playoff football starts, because history tells us that really does matter.

Oh my gosh THANK YOU!!!

I had a response to yoop and deleted it because I don't want another useless fight take over a forum.

But this is exactly what I want.

I am so sick of the "all defenses are struggling this year" Like that isn't how comparisons to other teams work. Yes giving up 24 points is the new 21 points benchmark. But there are still 15 teams who are doing better than us in points allowed.

I do think we have a shot to get in the top 7 or so in total yards and top 10 in pass and rush yards.

I think getting in the top 10 in points allowed is going to be a huge hurdle.

Another point we forget is the league is slanted towards offense. The owners want scoring because they feel scoring will bring in more viewers than defensive struggles. It is also why QBs are so valuable and why they win the most individual awards every year (MVP, OPOY, etc.).

Again. None of this matters when you isolate these facts and just compare our defense vs other defenses.

If our defense allows 38 points per game but are 5th in the league in points allowed per game...I'm not going to call our defense bad because they allow 38 points per game. I am going to call our defense good because they are better at points allowed than 27 other teams in the NFL.

The conversations we are having about the field being tilted to the offense is something for the offseason. I do think the NFL needs to try and address it because they can't make the game too difficult for defense. So much inequality in the game is not good for the game and does devalue positions and they do need to look into that. Plus I think it waters down the game. I'm not arguing that defense are at a disadvantage. Everyone knows they are.

But when we are talking about the Packers defense this season and how they compare to other defenses....all of this talk of no crowd, increased penalties, limited contact are irrelevant because every other team and defense fights through these variables. And as of right now, with us being 16th, we are an average, middle of the road defense with a superior and dominant offense.

That is who we are as a team. Now we can hope this defense comes out of nowhere in the postseason like Indy did in 2006 or we can hope none of it matters like it did for the Chiefs in 2019.

[lupedafiasco]

None of this matters.

Packers are going to put boot to butts on the Panthers. 11-3 incoming fellas.

[BSA]

But when we are talking about the Packers defense this season and how they compare to other defenses....all of this talk of no crowd, increased penalties, limited contact are irrelevant because every other team and defense fights through these variables.

that's a valid point, but there are some other variables to take into consideration.
I cruised through Steelers schedule to see who the number 1 defense feasted on...that's a variable that matters because all schedules are not equal. And SoS doesn't tell you how many truly pathetic offenses you're playing. (offensive rank)

Giants (31)
Broncos (29)
texans (23)
eagles (26)
cowboys (21)
bengals (30)
jags (28)

[BF004]

Cant see much on this table, but Pittsburg is still #1 in DVOA despite the number 30th offensive sos.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats ... fense/2020

[Bogey]

500 health care workers and first responders and families to join 500 Packers employees and families in the stands Saturday. We’re up to 1000!

[go pak go]

Cant see much on this table, but Pittsburg is still #1 in DVOA despite the number 30th offensive sos.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats ... fense/2020

So we are actually 20th in DVOA which I honestly think makes sense.

I honestly believe our "box score" stats make our defense appear better than they actually are.

[paco]

500 health care workers and first responders and families to join 500 Packers employees and families in the stands Saturday. We’re up to 1000!

Story says they are only hosting 250 for what its worth. Still, good thing to do. Also sounds like the Pro Bowl will be similar (only frontline).
https://www.packers.com/news/packers-to ... day-s-game

[Bogey]

500 health care workers and first responders and families to join 500 Packers employees and families in the stands Saturday. We’re up to 1000!

Story says they are only hosting 250 for what its worth. Still, good thing to do. Also sounds like the Pro Bowl will be similar (only frontline).
https://www.packers.com/news/packers-to ... day-s-game

Right, 250 frontliners, plus one family member each for a total of 500.

[Bogey]

500 health care workers and first responders and families to join 500 Packers employees and families in the stands Saturday. We’re up to 1000!

Story says they are only hosting 250 for what its worth. Still, good thing to do. Also sounds like the Pro Bowl will be similar (only frontline).
https://www.packers.com/news/packers-to ... day-s-game

Right, 250 frontliners, plus one family member each for a total of 500.

That's what they are telling us anyway.

[kyle.mccarroll]

Outside of Linsley, could we ask for better health at this point in the season?

[Bogey]

Story says they are only hosting 250 for what its worth. Still, good thing to do. Also sounds like the Pro Bowl will be similar (only frontline).
https://www.packers.com/news/packers-to ... day-s-game

Right, 250 frontliners, plus one family member each for a total of 500.

That's what they are telling us anyway.

Ah, they now clarified that the total number in attendance tomorrow night, including employees, frontliners and families will be about 800-900.