2020 General Draft Discussion

[NCF]

All RAS list (9-10) likely to be available around end of 1st/early 2nd round:

Mims, Claypool, DPJ, Ezra Cleveland, Cesar Ruiz, Austin Jackson, Justin Madubuike, Murray, Kyle Dugger, Jeremy Chinn, and K'Von Wallace. Throw in JT from Sconnie and that is the list. Cole Kmet misses by 0.1.

That is a weird group to choose from this year.

[BF004]

Detroit throwing out rumors?

[BF004]

4 big names at tackle, could all go top 15.

Plus Trent Williams is available.

[Labrev]

From Tony Pauline:

Aside from my horniness(!) for any decent ILB, Mims is a guy I also quite like.

[paco]

Marlon Davidson doesn't make any sense, does he?

[NCF]

Marlon Davidson doesn't make any sense, does he?

No.

[Sconnie Tradition]

Man, how about that 1958 Draft
Dan Currie
Jim Taylor
Ray Nitschke
Jerry Kramer

[Chilli]

Can anyone give me the details of what McGinn says about the RBs please. Thank you.

https://theathletic.co.uk/1754725/2020/ ... ing-backs/

[Chilli]

Pauline is a fairly reliable source when it comes to the Packers and I believe him when he says the Packers are high on Mims. He's exactly the type Gute looks for in WRs. We all known for a while he likes his WRs big and athletic despite the fact Rodgers performs best with smaller shiftier WRs such as Adams, Jennings, Driver and Cobb.

[salmar80]

Pauline is a fairly reliable source when it comes to the Packers and I believe him when he says the Packers are high on Mims. He's exactly the type Gute looks for in WRs. We all known for a while he likes his WRs big and athletic despite the fact Rodgers performs best with smaller shiftier WRs such as Adams, Jennings, Driver and Cobb.

I think it's hasty to think Gutey only likes big and athletic WRs. He tried to find one such a guy by throwing multiple mid-to-low rounders at it. Funchess is a potential Graham's receiving production -replacement, and wasn't much of an investment.

This draft will tell whether Gutey really wants a stable of big WRs only. My gut tells me he'll get a smaller shiftier type or two, depending who is available...

[Scott4Pack]

If one of the top tier QBs falls to Green Bay in round 1 (i.e. Love, etc.), do the Packers take him?

I doubt this scenario happens. But we have to admit it’d be tantalizing and ironic. Part of me wants it to happen, just to see what Guty does. I’d wager that he’d see that as an opportunity to trade back.

[Yoop]

Detroit throwing out rumors?

print for clicks, Rapaport's MO, why would the dolphins jump from 5 when there are at least 3 sure fire tackles in this class, how could the Dolphins GM be so enamored with one over the other when every grading place has those 3 or even Edwards to rated so close? makes no sense.

[NCF]

Never really crossed my mind until now.

[YoHoChecko]

Marlon Davidson doesn't make any sense, does he?

No.

Oh I think he does. I don't like him at 30, that's for sure, but I like him as a player and as a fit for us. He's not the kind of DL I think we need (a 2-gapper), but he is definitely one of the more intriguing 3-techniques after playing as an over-sized 4-3 DE. He gets off blocks incredibly easily and could be a run defender through gap penetration rather than holding up OL. That seems to be what Pettine prefers, even though it's not what I prefer.

[Pckfn23]

Just for variety sake, we can't make it 9 years in a row where we take a defensive player with our first pick, can we?

[YoHoChecko]

Pauline is a fairly reliable source when it comes to the Packers and I believe him when he says the Packers are high on Mims. He's exactly the type Gute looks for in WRs. We all known for a while he likes his WRs big and athletic despite the fact Rodgers performs best with smaller shiftier WRs such as Adams, Jennings, Driver and Cobb.

I think it's hasty to think Gutey only likes big and athletic WRs. He tried to find one such a guy by throwing multiple mid-to-low rounders at it. Funchess is a potential Graham's receiving production -replacement, and wasn't much of an investment.

This draft will tell whether Gutey really wants a stable of big WRs only. My gut tells me he'll get a smaller shiftier type or two, depending who is available...

I really don't buy the "Funchess replaces Graham" talk. Funchess is almost directly a replacement for Allison, just a hair taller and thicker. They're big, slow WRs with the same 40-time, the same "middle-of-the-field" usage, the same 10% drop rate, and very similar contract value (very low).

Graham's replacements are Tonyan and Strenberger. I'm not sure why people have such an aversion to that way of thinking. If we were replacing Jimmy Graham from 5 years ago, a big WR makes sense. But he's been just a tall TE with limited blocking skills for us. Funchess was a way to mildly upgrade on Allison without at all changing the style of player.

I definitely think that Gutey could find a different mold of WR, but I don't think that it is at all too early to say that he prefers these bigger guys with great size and less emphasis on speed to flesh out the WR group. It's not only the Moore, MVS and EQSB picks... but the Lazard claim, the Funchess signing, the Kumerow claim and retention. It's keeping Malik Taylor on the PS and futures contract.


Everyone is over 6'2 (usually taller). Everyone is 210+. Everyone except MVS and EQSB run slower than a 4.5; it's not fair to say Gutey ONLY likes this mold of WR, but it's totally fair to say this is a type he really likes. The only exception is that CFL guy, and even he fits the thick and 4.5s mold, just shorter.

It's for this reason that I think we NEED something different, and Gutey may recognize that and execute that, as well. But it's clear that when filling out a WR depth chart, he's going to stock it with big guys and pay less attention to timed speed.

[YoHoChecko]

Can anyone give me the details of what McGinn says about the RBs please. Thank you.

https://theathletic.co.uk/1754725/2020/ ... ing-backs/

I think it was here somewhere, but here ya go:

Running backs have gone from the belle of the ball to an ugly stepchild in the last generation. Guess what? It’s time to become reacquainted with the men that pound the rock.

Everybody in the scouting world seems smitten with Clyde Edwards-Helaire, the little big man who played a major role in LSU’s undefeated national championship season. Georgia’s D’Andre Swift, Wisconsin’s Jonathan Taylor and Ohio State’s J.K. Dobbins join CEH in a formidable foursome atop most draft boards.

Stealthily creeping beneath the hype meter are another dozen or so backs who have the chops to do some damage as well. Everyone knows the position has been devalued in the last decade, but the fact that backs aren’t being selected as high anymore clearly hasn’t diminished their ability to play if not excel.

“There’s no Zekes, but does that even matter anymore?” said an executive in personnel. “You just want a good back, really. The (Todd) Gurleys, the Zeke’s (Elliott), does that even matter?”

It does, and it doesn’t. Just nine backs have been drafted in the first round over the last five years, and teams have gotten it right. Not one of the nine has been a bust, and at their best Saquon Barkley, Christian McCaffrey, Melvin Gordon, Leonard Fournette, Elliott and Gurley were impact players.

That doesn’t begin to tell the story, however, about the influx of good players from the previous five classes of running backs.

In 2015, David Johnson and Tevin Coleman arrived in the third round, Jay Ajayi in the fifth and Raheem Mostert in free agency.

In 2016, it was Derrick Henry in the second round, Kenyan Drake in the third and Jordan Howard in the fifth. In 2017, the haul included Dalvin Cook and Joe Mixon in the second round, Alvin Kamara, Kareem Hunt and James Conner in the third, Marlon Mack and Tarik Cohen in the fourth, Aaron Jones in the fifth, Chris Carson in the seventh and Austin Ekeler as a free agent. In 2018, the second round included Nick Chubb, Ronald Jones and Kerryon Johnson while free agency produced Phillip Lindsay and Gus Edwards. Last year, Miles Sanders was a second-round pick, Devin Singletary, Alexander Mattison and David Montgomery were thirds and Tony Pollard and Benny Snell were fourths. Others have produced for teams as well.

Some of them had more fanfare than others. In some of those years, not many people were talking pre-draft about it being a banner year for running backs. As the wide receivers, tackles and, of course, quarterbacks dominate the chatter on the offensive side this spring, beneath the surface many teams detect another bumper crop of ball carriers awaiting destinations.

“It’s been proven that you don’t necessarily have to take a running back super high,” an AFC personnel man said. “There are some good ones, and they’re coming in all shapes and sizes. The NFL has become a different game that way in terms of what’s acceptable for a running back. Four different guys could be classified as the top guy this year.”

Edwards-Helaire is short, but he’s not small. Swift is the best receiver of the upper crust whereas Taylor is the fastest and Dobbins could be the most complete.

All or none could get into the first round. It doesn’t matter. Teams seem confident all four will be producers, barring injury.

“Unless you’re Saquon Barkley or Ezekiel Elliott, you ain’t going in the first round,” said another executive in personnel. “That’s because you can get somebody late second or third round, sometimes in the fourth round, that is a good running back. It’s the new NFL.”

The height of backs also has changed over time. Ten years ago, seven of my top 10 backs stood at least 5-11. This year, Boston College’s A.J. Dillon is the only one that does. “They’re all 5-8, 5-9,” said another scout. “The game has changed.”

The shortest of the top 25 backs is LSU’s Edwards-Helaire. He’s a shade over 5-7, a 1,448-yard rusher who also found time to catch 55 passes for the prolific Bayou Bengals. “Love him,” an AFC personnel man said. “If Joe Burrow was the star, (Edwards-Helaire) won the Academy Award for best supporting actor. He’s a little engine that could. He is a terrific football player.”

LSU went with journeyman Nick Brossette (5-11, 210, 4.70) in their 10-3 season of 2018. An undrafted free agent in 2019, he’s out of football. Edwards-Helaire had to be content with 146 carries and 11 receptions that year. “I don’t think they knew what they had,” said another AFC scout. “Last summer, I missed him, too. He’s 5-7, sharing reps, and you think he’s just a good little college player. He’s just been overlooked because of the way he looks when he gets off the bus.”

In chronological order, here are the names and height-weight-speed entering their drafts of seven players that have been compared in some form or fashion to Edwards-Helaire by at least one personnel man: Kevin Faulk (5-7 ½, 205, 4.48), Darren Sproles (5-6, 187, 4.48), Maurice Jones-Drew (5-7, 207, 4.39), Danny Woodhead (5-7 ½, 197, 4.41), Cohen (5-6 ½, 177, 4.41), Austin Ekeler (5-8 ½, 198, 4.48) and Devin Singletary (5-7 ½, 201, 4.65).

One significant difference is Edwards-Helaire ran just 4.59 at the combine, a least one-tenth of a second slower than six of those seven success stories. “But he has maybe the best play speed I’ve seen in like five years among running backs,” said one scout. “His game against Alabama and even his combine workout … his first step is full speed. It’s absolutely crazy how fast he plays.”

My poll of 18 evaluators asked them to rank their top five backs. As always, a first-place vote was worth five points, a second-place was worth four and so on.

Swift led with 77 points and 10 firsts, followed closely by Taylor (63, five), Edwards-Helaire (51, one) and Dobbins (50, two). The other vote-getters were Cam Akers (11), Zack Moss (seven), Dillon (five), Ke’Shawn Vaughn (five) and Darrynton Evans (one).

Even beyond the leading dozen, there are down-the-liners such as Miami’s DeeJay Dallas, Florida’s Lamical Perine, Cincinnati’s Mike Warren and Illinois State’s James Robinson that scouts have studied more than just casually.

It’s a good bet that the next Aaron Jones or Phillip Lindsay is sitting deep on draft boards just waiting to explode in the NFL. Running backs are very, very much alive and well. “It’s a good class,” an NFC decision-maker said. “There are interesting backs all the way through.”

Perhaps for the first time, several teams say college football hasn’t sent forth a conventional fullback of merit. So if you’re a club that needs one, it’s a game of projecting shorter tight ends to do the dirty blocking work from the backfield.

[paco]

Marlon Davidson doesn't make any sense, does he?

No.

Oh I think he does. I don't like him at 30, that's for sure, but I like him as a player and as a fit for us. He's not the kind of DL I think we need (a 2-gapper), but he is definitely one of the more intriguing 3-techniques after playing as an over-sized 4-3 DE. He gets off blocks incredibly easily and could be a run defender through gap penetration rather than holding up OL. That seems to be what Pettine prefers, even though it's not what I prefer.

I did mean at 30. He wasn't on my radar due to a really low RAS, but that doesn't matter as much on DL. I can see him with us, but not at 30.

[paco]

Detroit throwing out rumors?

print for clicks, Rapaport's MO, why would the dolphins jump from 5 when there are at least 3 sure fire tackles in this class, how could the Dolphins GM be so enamored with one over the other when every grading place has those 3 or even Edwards to rated so close? makes no sense.

Since when do teams think like grading places? Every year we see examples where teams obviously look at things differently. Wouldn't surprise me if they have a guy picked out that they think is THE guy at OT. Wouldn't doubt they are trying to keep 5 in some way, but Detroit would be dumb to take any deal not involving 5.

[BF004]

Man, how about that 1958 Draft
Dan Currie
Jim Taylor
Ray Nitschke
Jerry Kramer

2nd best draft in Packers history after Gary, Savage, Jenkins, Sternberger and Keke. NFLs first ever 5 member HOF draft.