False Prophet

[bud fox]

Rodgers has every right to demand a trade at this point.

...Rodgers should give them what they want and demand a trade - there is nothing wrong in doing your best to win all the time...

So who is going to take on his contract? How would the Packers pay the prorated money? It's practically impossible.

100% it's a problem and impossible - still doesn't stop him from asking for it. Sending a message to him all weekend time for him to send a message back.

[williewasgreat]

Well, it's obvious the GM doesn't draft for need. Our biggest needs were OT, WR and ILB and we'll be going into the 5th round with none of these positions selected. The trouble is I don't think you can say he drafts best player available either.

[Packfntk]

Rodgers has every right to demand a trade at this point.

...Rodgers should give them what they want and demand a trade - there is nothing wrong in doing your best to win all the time...

So who is going to take on his contract? How would the Packers pay the prorated money? It's practically impossible.

100% it's a problem and impossible - still doesn't stop him from asking for it. Sending a message to him all weekend time for him to send a message back.

[Pugger]

I knew TT wasnt the guy. Always did. He made some nice picks here and there and made some great signings but ultimately he was a wet blanket of a man who had no killer instinct. He was OK with just being OK, which seems to be the case with most Packer fans quite honestly. The man had no killer instinct. No ability to push the team over the top.

I was optimistic with Gutenkunst. He was the one who was supposed to destroy the mediocrity, not become it. I was patient. I waited to see how things turned out. I didnt think year one he had much room to work in terms of the cap but a bad draft and even worse FA class made me nervous. The 2nd year showed promise. His FA class was stellar. His draft again was subpar wasting his 1st pick on a backup after paying big money to the position in FA.

But this is inexcusable. I now know that Gutey is not the guy. He is a false prophet. <snip> He may not be as bad as TT but (I had to delete my original thought as it may have been too intense but I believe the analogy worked) hes bad all the same. 2 years in a row taking a backup with your 1st pick. This does not improve a team striving to win a SB. It just doesnt and no one can convince me otherwise. And sure I will here that this is how the Packers got Rodgers but that isnt the same. No one considered Love the best QB prospect in the class. In fact no one even considered him 2nd best. Mostly the consensus was he was 4th and in some areas you may find him as 3rd but that was the minority. The guy has a good arm sure but he hasnt played anyone in terms of competition and his decision making and numbers were horrible. So now you take a guy who needs experience to improve and put him on the bench.

I can now be considered the head of the fire Gutenkunst fan club. The man is an idiot. just ok with being good enough and not the best.

It is super premature to judge a draft before mini camps begin.

[Pugger]

Lupe, sorry dude. Your call on Ted is off.

Ted was a guy who build an entire career working his butt off. He did it as a player, making a less-talented body turn into a serviceable depth LB in the NFL. He did it as a scout, finding many quality players and helping to build a franchise. He did it as GM too, building his scouting skills, developing other good scouts, watching more tape and seeing more players than almost anybody in the game. You don't give him enough credit. Oh yeah, he built a team that won a SB. I don't know the count of "men" at the GM position who've never even sniffed a Lombardi Trophy, let alone play for one. But Ted got there, winning praises from all of his peers along the way. There is no question that he was a good talent evaluator. The only question is how much some people question him or some of his choices.

Guty is another guy who doesn't follow a mold. And in a short time span, he's taken a rudderless Packer team to the NFCCG. One step away from the Super Bowl, and in only one season. Good grief. So what if he doesn't choose the players that some of us want. Look at his results. I could criticize his picks too. But I'm not at the tier of the NFL that he is and that he has our Packers at right NOW.

I would've flipped a coin between Queen and Mims. But I wasn't the GM.

Guty took a developmental QB that he and his HC obviously believe strongly in and took their shot. He went against the grain to do it too! This guy is a cut above. That doesn't guarantee that he won't be canned this time next year or the year after. But he's cutting his own path, based on his own info. Too many GMs are only trying to get by. And Guty is shooting higher than that. I don't know how much more clear that could be. Remember, I wouldn't have picked Love. But I can see why Guty did. And he weighed his future as GM on this pick. No denying that.

I want GMs like these two guys. They tend to build teams of a very high caliber. What else do we want?

Lupe wants to be the Packers' GM.

[HeavyD]

Interesting point about Rodgers' extension especially when you consider our talk on here was about franchising him for 2 years. Rodgers old contract would have ran out this pat season so we would be going into 2020 with a franchise tag on him. That would have been $26,895,000, that would have been about $5.25 million more against the cap compared to what he is counting now. We could have then tagged him again and the cap implications would have been a 20% raise or $32,274,000. That have saved us roughly $4.1 million on the cap in 2021. That would have given Love 2 years behind Rodgers and saved us roughly $25 million in cap space total.

I don't get the strategy regarding the major moves headed up by Murphy. Hire a coach who has a run-first philosophy, then extend a pass first QB to a massive extension only to go all in on Jordan Love 18 months later makes zero sense to me. None whatsoever.

I just don't know how to square that circle.

[JKB]

Gutey was definitely all in on the 1st round. His job is on the line with that pick. I love that he just lit a damn fire under the primA donnas nuts!

[Freewheelingutey]

Makes about as much sense as not drafting any receivers so far. It's not like the have a great slot guy or a gadget like most teams now have..there were all kinds of wrs available and up until now..not 1 selected. It's not like you have guys they are great behind Adams.

[JKB]

Makes about as much sense as not drafting any receivers so far. It's not like the have a great slot guy or a gadget like most teams now have..there were all kinds of wrs available and up until now..not 1 selected. It's not like you have guys they are great behind Adams.

You don’t like the WR’s behind Adams?
Lazard came into his own!
st Brown was expected to bloom and got hurt in preseason. MVS got hurt,
Going to run lots of 2 WR sets, I just don’t see WR as a big need...

[JKB]

Well, it's obvious the GM doesn't draft for need. Our biggest needs were OT, WR and ILB and we'll be going into the 5th round with none of these positions selected. The trouble is I don't think you can say he drafts best player available either.

They signed Kirksey, ILB huge need not so much,
WR not a huge need, a rookie at pick 30 wouldn’t sniff the field IMO.

[Freewheelingutey]

What do they have behind an oft injured Kirksey? A 7th rd pick last year..who looked awful in preseason and missed alot of tackles. An undrafted guy who blew out his knee in preseason. A former safety who was a 3rd round pick..who couldn't get on the field defensively because he sucked even worse than the rest of these guys! They needed another stud!

Who besides Adams is great? Lazard came on late and was good..Mvs faded from the 1st half of the season and barely even played by the time the playoffs rolled around. Geronimo sucked and was not resigned. Sheppard wasn't used on offense. EQSB was hurt in preseason. They needed to add a high pick there. That whole rookies don't contribute much theory died last year as there were at least 4 or 5 who played big roles for their teams!

[lupedafiasco]

Lupe, sorry dude. Your call on Ted is off.

Ted was a guy who build an entire career working his butt off. He did it as a player, making a less-talented body turn into a serviceable depth LB in the NFL. He did it as a scout, finding many quality players and helping to build a franchise. He did it as GM too, building his scouting skills, developing other good scouts, watching more tape and seeing more players than almost anybody in the game. You don't give him enough credit. Oh yeah, he built a team that won a SB. I don't know the count of "men" at the GM position who've never even sniffed a Lombardi Trophy, let alone play for one. But Ted got there, winning praises from all of his peers along the way. There is no question that he was a good talent evaluator. The only question is how much some people question him or some of his choices.

Guty is another guy who doesn't follow a mold. And in a short time span, he's taken a rudderless Packer team to the NFCCG. One step away from the Super Bowl, and in only one season. Good grief. So what if he doesn't choose the players that some of us want. Look at his results. I could criticize his picks too. But I'm not at the tier of the NFL that he is and that he has our Packers at right NOW.

I would've flipped a coin between Queen and Mims. But I wasn't the GM.

Guty took a developmental QB that he and his HC obviously believe strongly in and took their shot. He went against the grain to do it too! This guy is a cut above. That doesn't guarantee that he won't be canned this time next year or the year after. But he's cutting his own path, based on his own info. Too many GMs are only trying to get by. And Guty is shooting higher than that. I don't know how much more clear that could be. Remember, I wouldn't have picked Love. But I can see why Guty did. And he weighed his future as GM on this pick. No denying that.

I want GMs like these two guys. They tend to build teams of a very high caliber. What else do we want?

Lupe wants to be the Packers' GM.

I just know I would do better.

[Freewheelingutey]

Can I be the co gm? I won't do anything but wouldn't mind making a couple of million dollars a year. Hell they've spent way more than that on crappy players.

[lifelong_packfan]

Well, it's obvious the GM doesn't draft for need. Our biggest needs were OT, WR and ILB and we'll be going into the 5th round with none of these positions selected. The trouble is I don't think you can say he drafts best player available either.

They signed Kirksey, ILB huge need not so much,
WR not a huge need, a rookie at pick 30 wouldn’t sniff the field IMO.

I believe JKB is just being sarcastic and playing the "devil's advocate".

[JKB]

What do they have behind an oft injured Kirksey? A 7th rd pick last year..who looked awful in preseason and missed alot of tackles. An undrafted guy who blew out his knee in preseason. A former safety who was a 3rd round pick..who couldn't get on the field defensively because he sucked even worse than the rest of these guys! They needed another stud!

Who besides Adams is great? Lazard came on late and was good..Mvs faded from the 1st half of the season and barely even played by the time the playoffs rolled around. Geronimo sucked and was not resigned. Sheppard wasn't used on offense. EQSB was hurt in preseason. They needed to add a high pick there. That whole rookies don't contribute much theory died last year as there were at least 4 or 5 who played big roles for their teams!

You want depth? Or you want starters

[dsr]

I knew TT wasnt the guy. Always did. He made some nice picks here and there and made some great signings but ultimately he was a wet blanket of a man who had no killer instinct. He was OK with just being OK, which seems to be the case with most Packer fans quite honestly. The man had no killer instinct. No ability to push the team over the top.

I was optimistic with Gutenkunst. He was the one who was supposed to destroy the mediocrity, not become it. I was patient. I waited to see how things turned out. I didnt think year one he had much room to work in terms of the cap but a bad draft and even worse FA class made me nervous. The 2nd year showed promise. His FA class was stellar. His draft again was subpar wasting his 1st pick on a backup after paying big money to the position in FA.

But this is inexcusable. I now know that Gutey is not the guy. He is a false prophet. <snip> He may not be as bad as TT but (I had to delete my original thought as it may have been too intense but I believe the analogy worked) hes bad all the same. 2 years in a row taking a backup with your 1st pick. This does not improve a team striving to win a SB. It just doesnt and no one can convince me otherwise. And sure I will here that this is how the Packers got Rodgers but that isnt the same. No one considered Love the best QB prospect in the class. In fact no one even considered him 2nd best. Mostly the consensus was he was 4th and in some areas you may find him as 3rd but that was the minority. The guy has a good arm sure but he hasnt played anyone in terms of competition and his decision making and numbers were horrible. So now you take a guy who needs experience to improve and put him on the bench.

I can now be considered the head of the fire Gutenkunst fan club. The man is an idiot. just ok with being good enough and not the best.

The problem is that the conclusion you draw bears no relation to the three paragraphs before it. He's drafted Love because he wants to be the best and continue being the best even after Rodgers has gone. If he had wanted to be just good enough, he would have signed a first round draft pick who can contribute now, even if he is only just good enough.

[bud fox]

The problem is that the conclusion you draw bears no relation to the three paragraphs before it. He's drafted Love because he wants to be the best and continue being the best even after Rodgers has gone. If he had wanted to be just good enough, he would have signed a first round draft pick who can contribute now, even if he is only just good enough.

I think you missed the part where he gave up on trying to help the current team win to ensure we have the potential to win in the future.

His decisions to help the team win have been essentially a back up QB, back up RB, back up TE or FB.

This is about winning the Superbowl - that is the best. There is only one team that is the best every year.

[dsr]

There is no defending this draft - egotistical rubbish from the front office.

Rodgers has every right to demand a trade at this point.

This is an organization trying to signal its power to the face of the franchise. Rodgers should give them what they want and demand a trade - there is nothing wrong in doing your best to win all the time. Rodgers best chance of winning is to move on.

I think you're missing the point of this trade. Obviously Love is the man they intend will replace Rodgers - but not yet. Love will replace Rodgers when he becomes better than Rodgers, which if he is as good as they hope, is (at a guess) in the same three year period that Rodgers took to clearly overtake Favre.

Time will tell whether this pick is more stupid or less stupid that the Thompson pick of Rodgers in 2005. Though many people with hindsight would give that pick a lot less criticism that they did at the time.

I just hope Love isn't booed onto the field in pre-season like Rodgers was.

[dsr]

The problem is that the conclusion you draw bears no relation to the three paragraphs before it. He's drafted Love because he wants to be the best and continue being the best even after Rodgers has gone. If he had wanted to be just good enough, he would have signed a first round draft pick who can contribute now, even if he is only just good enough.

I think you missed the part where he gave up on trying to help the current team win to ensure we have the potential to win in the future.

His decisions to help the team win have been essentially a back up QB, back up RB, back up TE or FB.

This is about winning the Superbowl - that is the best. There is only one team that is the best every year.

That's true. I suppose we could go more the baseball model of going all-in one year and completely rebuilding. Instead we have gone the "consistently challenging" model for 25 years or more and won 2 Superbowls - only Denver and New England have won more since Favre's first full season.

Would we have won more if we had gone "all in" a bit more often - crucially, including 2005 where we didn't use a first round pick on a backup QB? Who knows.

[bud fox]

There is no defending this draft - egotistical rubbish from the front office.

Rodgers has every right to demand a trade at this point.

This is an organization trying to signal its power to the face of the franchise. Rodgers should give them what they want and demand a trade - there is nothing wrong in doing your best to win all the time. Rodgers best chance of winning is to move on.

I think you're missing the point of this trade. Obviously Love is the man they intend will replace Rodgers - but not yet. Love will replace Rodgers when he becomes better than Rodgers, which if he is as good as they hope, is (at a guess) in the same three year period that Rodgers took to clearly overtake Favre.

Time will tell whether this pick is more stupid or less stupid that the Thompson pick of Rodgers in 2005. Though many people with hindsight would give that pick a lot less criticism that they did at the time.

I just hope Love isn't booed onto the field in pre-season like Rodgers was.

The consensus view was that Rodgers was the BPA - the consensus in this case is that this was a reach. So an initial grade is poor.

The pick is stupid if we intend to have Rodgers for more than 2 years because we get no rookie contract value from Love. I will be shocked if he isn't starting year 3 whether he is good or bad.